Rydney

I am amazed that you can just disregard a comma and decide that the scriptures do not say what they say... more disappointment.

I am sorry that open debate is a problem for you, but it is not for me, and if you lose interest in honest debates in which valid points are made that you disagree with... well, that is something you should think about. I was given a set of scriptures by the missionaries and I read them, and what I read contradicts what I see at Church, and I wanted to know why. I am disappointed that all I found here was contention and anger. Good luck to you.

There is nothing in animal protein that you cannot get from plants, and actually the digesting of animal protein is damaging in many ways. There are many world class athletes who choose to be vegan because it enhances there abilities, so you are wrong there I'm afraid. What you say about prudence regarding meat is also wrong, as the scriptures clearly state when it is okay to eat meat, and as I explained earlier, in modern times it is next to never that you would be in those situations. Why are the arguments for eating meat never based on scripture, except to reverse what the scripture actually says?

No, but what I am saying is that if it is in the scriptures it is beyond doubt, and as the commandment against meat is in the scriptures it is beyond doubt. You have to search outside of them for commandments against coffee and tea and would never touch those, but you have no problem consuming what is actually in the scriptures. If you don't want converts to read these books why do you give them to us?

Very well, then why do you eat meat?

Those vegetarians you knew were not eating a healthy vegetarian diet, the meat added nothing to their diet they could not get from plants, but that is beside the issue. Telling me I have no basis explains nothing as to why this commandment is ignored, and doesn't really say anything anyway, I could tell you you have no basis, but what does that accomplish? Your reference to the quakers I will have to look up, but it seems odd that a statement that says you cannot forbid me to abstain from eating meat would mean the exact opposite.

I'm new to this, but I have to ask, are any of these scripture? If not, why are they relevant? If so, I am wrong, but this still does not explain why meat is forbidden except in times described and is eaten constantly, making the eating of meat at least as forbidden as the drinking of coffee, if those are scripture references.

I don't think I understand your question Ben, I have read what is given and that's that, it's not about being absolute, it's just about reading what is in the scripture and wondering why it is almost always interpreted to mean the very opposite. I would also like to know why "hot drinks" are interpreted to mean coffee when that is not to be found anywhere in the scriptures, but eating meat is, and yet it is ignored, denied, or often times angrily defended.

"My refrigerator and freezer are capable of maintaining an environment of cold and winter year round – something not available when the commandment was given." Exactly, which is why you have no excuse for eating meat, since you can refrigerate non-animal food year round, which could not be done when the commandment was given and often the only food available in winter time was that which came from the killing of a live animal. You don't have that problem, and therefore have no excuse.

A.) The wording of that particular part of the Word of Wisdom (aka good advice) seems to suggest that this is not as much of an absolute. This is not accurate, as this commandment is is the WOW, making it as applicable as the commandment against alcohol and tobacco, and this argument is another problem I have, as members who espouse this have only repeated what they are told and not read it truly for themselves, as it is very clear when read. How do you see this as advice when it is in the WOW? B.) One must take this passage and balance it with: Quote: Doctrine and Covenants 49:18-19 18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; And whoso forbiddeth (who forbids) to abstain from meats (anyone who forbids the abstaining from meats, meaning if you forbid me from being vegan). This passage only further proves my point. 19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance. The beasts of the field (used to produce food, not become it) and fowls of the air (could go either way) and that which cometh of the earth (plants) is ordained for the use (not the eating) of man for food and for raiment... This can easily be read to mean that the animals are to be used to help produce the food, not be it, but that is my point exactly, mormons always want this to mean they can eat meat, but that means it contradicts the WOW, so that means it should be read to mean that animals are to produce food, not be it, and that would be in line with the WOW, so why would anyone read it to contradict? This is exactly my point, the arguments for eating meat make no sense. Agreed that meat is probably overconsumed in the Church, but prohibiting it would contradict D&C 49 Exactly, which is why it should NOT be read that way...

Personally, I think anything is possible through the Spirit, but I can only say that about myself and my experiences, and I am not gay, so that is very easy for me to say in regards to your situation. I wanted to add my two cents here because of your question: "Any advice on combating the increasing bitterness I'm feeling?" My answer is yes, be yourself, whatever that may mean for you, and as long as you are a good person and not hurting anyone else you are a better person than most religious people already, and I would add that this is true not in spite of your sexuality, but because of it. Your experiences will make you capable of giving back in ways heterosexuals cannot. I have struggled with my church membership because the bible clearly makes a stronger case for at least civil gay marriage than against it-and the complete ignoring of the commandment not to eat meat, but that's for another time-and yet here you are having to question yourself because of the picking and choosing that goes on in all modern christian churches. Practice chastity until you find someone you want to spend your life with, and devote yourself to that person, and know that you have lived a Christ like life. Marrying a woman and having children with her when you know you are gay will ultimately cause more harm than good, as you will either suffer depression at some point and not be able to pull out of it because you cannot be yourself, or you will leave her to finally be yourself. It happens all the time and is just one more reason civil gay marriage is the right thing to do, so find a man to spend your life with, be faithful to him, and serve the Lord however he may ask of you, but that will never be denying who you are.

It's simple enough, the commandment not to eat meat unless in times of cold/winter/famine, and given how often a modern mormon finds themselves in a position of starving or eating meat, this means it should be eaten pretty much never. So why is this totally overlooked by all but two members I've ever met in my entire life, and worse yet, why do member tell me I'm wrong when the commandment is right there, it's not like I made it up, and even worse, this commandment is for the "least of ye" so what gives people, why doesn't anyone care about this but whoa nelly if someone drinks a cup of coffee?