dahlia
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Posts posted by dahlia
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Every 34th wage earner in America in 2008 went all of 2009 without earning a single dollar, new data from the Social Security Administration show. Total wages, median wages, and average wages all declined, but at the very top, salaries grew more than fivefold.
Wow, that's amazing. I usually keep up on this kind of data but missed this. If this is the case, there are a lot of people hurting out there.
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So, I met with them a 2nd time. Due to a physical limitation I have right now, I asked to meet them in my office as I have a difficult time walking. I was a little afraid of my peers seeing the missionaries and asking questions, but when we got back to 'faculty row,' no one was there. And yes, I realize there's something wrong with being embarrassed to be seen with missionaries. I'm working on why I feel that way with my peers; I wouldn't have been embarrassed if I'd been able to meet in a restaurant as planned.
I brought some magazines for the wife of the church member who comes along. I know what it's like to be a couple living on, in our case, VA benefits, with a kid and little disposable income. Next time, I will see what else I can do - the wife is at home in student housing with a baby all day. I'm sure she'd like to get out or get some recreational materials that she doesn't have to pay for.
We talked about the Plan for Salvation and some questions I had about my reading in the BOM. We also talked about my need to start praying. I'm going to work on that.
It strange how things happen, just the day before I was explaining some things about Mormonism to someone who wasn't hostile, but had some typical misguided notions and a lot of ignorance about the religion. I had to ask myself how I got in the position of defending/explaining Mormonism and I'm not even Mormon!
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Just a note about the space bags - I love when they work, but often the zipper comes undone or for some reason, the air comes in. I'd run duct tape around the zipper opening to keep the air out as a precaution.
I've moved all over. I'm one of those freaks who likes to pack (maybe it's the Air Force brat in me) and tend to pack well in advance. I love the organization of it all. : )
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Well, the missionaries came and we had a nice chat. Or actually, 1 missionary and 1 local church member came. They asked if I had questions - which was when I remembered to print out my list. : ) I may have thrown them off their game a bit with all the questions as I got the feeling there is a set lesson or something they wanted to do.
The person from the church was a 1st year law student! This was great for me (the Lord works in mysterious ways, huh?) because before becoming a professor, I practiced law. I kept hitting the guy (nicely) with questions that required reason and logic and he kept coming back. He had done his missionary service and must have been really good, 'cause he was good with me!
As I mentioned in one of my early posts, I had doubts about a young person giving me the depth of information I want. I think I got good answers from the church member. The missionary did defer to the other young man's knowledge sometimes, but I didn't find it to be the problem that I thought it might be. We all have to start somewhere.
I am meeting with them next week, so I guess that's a good sign. I decided I'll shut up and let them talk. I might learn something.
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I have my cookies (2 kinds), my apple juice, and found some cute plastic glasses on sale. The downstairs is vacuumed, the pile of professor stuff that floats around the house is put up, and the guest bath is clean. Next time, we're going to have to meet in public; this is too much work!
I finally told my son, who is grown, that the missionaries stopped by and that they were coming over. To my surprise, he didn't call me nuts or anything. He's not against Mormons, he's just not religious. He lost his father at 14 and since then, has been your typical 'God didn't answer my prayers, why am I going to believe in God' kinda guy. He's not nasty about it; he just doesn't care, unless you're like that Phelps guy shouting at military funerals. He knows I've been reading all summer and I frequently pull him aside to tell him some new Mormon fact I've learned, so maybe he thought it was coming.
I appreciate your post, LDSValley. It was very thoughtful and even though I am anxious about presenting a decent appearance and being a little playful, I understand where my mind needs to be focused and why the missionaries are here.
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Whew! What a firestorm! I'm going to serve them cookies (unless I find something more healthful while I'm shopping) and apple juice.
For myself, I will continue drinking Diet Pepsi and herbal tea. I'm diabetic and my liquid options are limited.
I'm getting a nervous stomach thinking about having them over. I haven't told my son they are coming. He'll probably wonder why I'm cleaning the house and I'll have to say something.
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I think the Church is doing great work with its internet presence. I would never have learned so much, so quickly, without the internet. Also, I wouldn't have had Mormons to talk to. You can't really walk around town and ask people if they are Mormon!
For an investigator, the improved Mormon.org site was helpful to show me people of my age and race who had converted. It's nice to see I'm not the only person crazy enough to be thinking about this!
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So, I don't know how cold it gets in Utah, but -20 is not unusual around these parts. Are people not supposed to drink any hot drinks, or only cocoa (though it appears to be problematic for some folks)? How about hot water with lemon or honey?
And if caffeine isn't the real issue, than is there anything wrong with a Diet Pepsi?
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Well, we've made arrangements for them to come over next week. They are bringing someone from the church with them. From the looks of the two guys, they could use a few pounds, so I'm going to have some cookies and juice available. : )
I'm not a coffee drinker, so I don't have that issue, but what do Mormons serve to drink at their functions? I'd rather not serve juice, which is just so much sugar, but I don't keep dairy in the house (so, no milk) and don't know what else would be appropriate.
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I don't know if you saw my other post about missionaries at my door, but they wouldn't come in either. I didn't want to miss the chance to talk to them, so we ended up standing in my doorway. I thought it was a little silly - the guys were probably 13 yrs younger than my son - but they wouldn't come in. Also, it was now dark and the guys were on bikes. I have an SUV and could have driven them back to their apartment with the bikes in the back, but they probably wouldn't have accepted for the same reason they wouldn't come in. I understand why they don't do it, but it seems to make life difficult sometimes.
I'm meeting with them next week and they are bringing someone from the church with them. This way, if my son is home fine, if he isn't, they can still come in and chat.
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Well, I was minding my own business last night when the bell rang and to my surprise, there were two missionaries at my door. I'd been home all day and wasn't presentable, but asked them to wait.
Well, I bet they were shocked when I (now presentable) opened the door with my BOM in hand and books on theology and the Mormon contribution to American business and civic life! They were probably more surprised when I asked if they'd seen any of the Conference and would they like to talk about it.
My son wasn't home, so they wouldn't come in, but guys, we talked in my doorway for about an hour. It was very instructive. They were nice young guys (OK, I'm a professor, I have a soft spot for clean cut college age guys) who turned down my offer of cookies. I live near the site of one of the handcart camps and we talked about that, how they were getting along in town, as well as the usual Mormon investigator stuff.
I mentioned I'd driven up to the church but was afraid to go in and they offered to take me on a tour when there wasn't a service. I think that's great; takes a way the intimidation factor. All my materials are borrowed from the library, so the guys gave me my own BOM with some nice cards in it. They are also going to look for a big print version for these tired eyes.
I hope they don't get Brownie points for a baptism 'cause I don't think I'm ready for that, but I am very open to hearing what they have to say and going to the church. I will probably meet them on campus during the day, which is probably better. I don't know what kind of free time they have, but they are living here and might as well see a bit of the campus.
Are missionaries allowed to accept gifts? I'm thinking their funds are limited and if we have a few lessons I'd like to get them some university memorabilia to take back home.
So, that is my experience with talking to missionaries.
As an aside, I'm on a conservative political board where articles about LDS come up. I just left a thread with hundreds of posts, and many of them so anti-LDS I was just ashamed for my fellow conservatives for being that narrow. What is it with protestant Christians and LDS? I don't get the venom. How can people call themselves Christian and be so hateful? If you don't want to be a Mormon, don't be one. The behavior just turns my stomach.
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JThimm88 - I'm a professor and a mom, though my son is grown. If you were my advisee, I'd suggest that you stay with your baby while you can. Since you don't have an obvious career path that is of interest to you, stay with the baby and get some life experience. In the next few years, I bet you develop interests that will lead you to the right major and a career, because it is a HUGE waste of money and time to keep switching majors has you've done.
That said, not everyone needs to go to college. Maybe it isn't your thing, and that's fine, but as others have mentioned, I think you should be prepared for life and making your own way should that happen (I was widowed in my 30's), or at least helping your husband if necessary. Maybe you can take a 1 year computing program, or X-ray technology, or any of the many programs offered by community colleges that only take a year or so of training and lead directly to a job (as opposed to being an English major and hoping you find a job).
Tell your BIL to live his own life; you find what's right for you.
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I looked at the conference threads and didn't see replies and wasn't sure if I should post there. I thought LDS.net might have a 'live' thread during the conference so people could react to what they'd heard.
I listened to many of the talks and some of the music. I can't recall the gentleman's name, but I admit to getting misty when he spoke of returning from his mission, to find his parents going on their own mission, and that he thought he was broke and couldn't get married, only to find out that his parents had worked to pay his expenses and left his savings untouched. It was a powerful story about parental love and devotion.
The speeches (talks? sermons?) that I heard were so positive! I kept waiting for the fire and brimstone and telling us what sinners we are, but there was nothing like that - just good, uplifting, positive, thoughtful, entertaining talks. As someone new to all this, I've gotta say that the Mormons have a good thing going! I'm not sure I'm on board with everything, but 90% of what I learn is just so positive and supportive. The more I learn, the more I think that most anti-Mormon 'Christians' don't have an idea what Mormonism is about.
How do you manage to have different, substantive, talks and music like this, and such a gathering of people twice a year?! I thought it was amazing and find it difficult to imagine finding the mental energy to think about everything that is said and give it full attention and contemplation twice annually. I'm just curious why the conference is not an annual meeting like other denominations.
Before the conference started (I looked at it via BYU TV), there was a show about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir - talk about logistics! Finding out about the conductor and everything it takes to get the choir on the road was just fascinating.
My apologies if I've posted in the wrong place; I really did look around.
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About accepting a calling. Elder Thomas S. Monson said, " Never aspire for a Church Position. When you are called never say no. When the going gets tough never resign." I... Believe me sister, the only thing that should stop anyone from accepting a calling is their unworhtiness.
See, that's exactly the kind of thinking that keeps me away (and I like Monson quite a bit). There's no room for discussion of personal issues, preferences, etc. Just say yes, no matter how ill-prepared or ill-equipped you are to handle it.
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Hi guys. I'm back after starting off the school year.
I've read this all with interest. I have to admit that the calling system is frightening to me. I don't have a job that ends at 5. After work, I come home to writing, grading, reading new lit in my field, doing service work for both my employer and national organizations (usually reading, writing & critiquing others' work)- work that is expected as part of my bid for tenure.
I know that many people are active LDS and work long hours or are faculty as I am, and I am embarrassed and/or guilty that I don't want to do it. I just don't. Do I have down time? Yes, but I feel I need that downtime to regroup. I just don't know how I can accept any more demands on my time and get tenure and be a good Mormon who accepts any calling.
I get the feeling that just going to church and participating in various VOLUNTEER activities (rather than 'volunteered' activities) is not enough for Mormons and it is part of what keeps me away from starting to attend church.
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Hello, Olivia. I'm new as well, so I hope it's OK for me to say 'hi.' I've learned a lot and folks here seem pretty nice.
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Wow. A lot of discussion here. I'm learning a lot. Regarding reading the Bible and the Bible in the Mass, of course I looked at a Bible and heard parts of the Bible at Mass, but all I can say is we didn't read the Bible in religion class (which I had every school day for 12 years). We learned 'bible stories' of course, but more of the lives of the saints, history of the Church, and Catholic theology. No way did we become as familiar with the Bible the way many Protestants are.
I'd add that despite what the Catholic church says about venerating and not worshiping Mary, 'Mary worship' is probably an accurate description of what goes on for many devout Catholics. As a child, I had a May altar for years. Was that worship or veneration? Don't know. I also think a large part of it was cultural - it's May (Mary's month), you get a statue and some nice stuff to go around it and compete with your friends for the nicest altar. Kind of like the cultural aspects of celebrating Easter with a basket and candy. The religious aspect has long since faded away and you're left with culturally based behaviors.
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It'd kinda be like holding Joseph up as a model father, I'm sure he was a great man and father (who else but a remarkable man would be given the privileged he was) but we just don't know much about him and so he makes a sketchy (as in lacking in details) model to use.
Good point! I grew up in the pre-Vatican II church and we had May for Mary, monthly novena, and much Mary-devotion. It is possible
that much folklore was added to the small biblical record of Mary's life. I didn't want to make the first post too long, but I did think of the 'other children' issue. That is problematic for Catholics. The first time I ever heard such a thing (and this after 12 yrs of Catholic school), was in a college class on the bible as literature. Catholics explained the term 'brother' when applied to James (? I'm not a bible scholar) was that he was as close to Jesus as a brother, but of course, Jesus had no brothers because Mary was always a virgin.
This info came to me as a great shock as since we were not encouraged to read the bible (but rather the catechism and church pronouncements), I'm sure many Catholics had no idea that Jesus may have had a brother(s?). I guess that accepting that would make it almost impossible to accept the idea of Mary as always a Virgin, which might have decreased the veneration accorded to her.
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As you might imagine for a former Catholic, Mary was a big deal, both personally (the whole mother thing) and in her veneration by the Church.
How do LDS view Mary - do you consider she was a virgin? Does it make any difference? Do you ask the Virgin for guidance (and before I get responses about worshiping anyone other than God, Catholics ask Mary to intercede on their behalf, they don't pray to her as a god). Do you look to Mary as a model for mothers?
Thanks.
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Stereotypes go both ways and I think it's brilliant to try and correct some of them.
I agree. For those who have little exposure to the LDS, I think the ads go a long way to informing how the church thinks about certain topics. Personally, I find them just good PSAs - be a good parent, be honest, pay attention to your friends, etc. Nothing wrong with getting a dose of those messages now and then, no matter what your religion.
As to the original post, you don't have to go to YouTube to see some vile comments. I am on a conservative message board that just has me shocked with how nasty, ignorant, and just plain hateful members are toward anything Mormon that's posted. Of course, these members will say they are 'good Christians,' but, man, I don't know any Christianity as hateful as what I see online. Being the person that I am, the more hate I read, the more I wanted to learn about Mormons, so here I am.
I think there must be something about some of the fundamentalist churches. These people go off on Catholics and Jews as well, but I think the real hate is reserved for the LDS. I've never seen anything like it.
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Audrey Hepburn was hot!
Absolutely. That's why I said it was not the length, but the type of cut that bothered me. There are all kinds of cute short hair cuts.
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Thanks everyone for this discussion. Like some here, I also think that some people may convert too quickly. I've read missionary stories about quick baptisms and wondered if they were well-advised. I'm sure some people will say that the Spirit moved these people and that there's no harm in getting baptized quickly, but I have to think that the Spirit also wants us to think and consider what we are doing and why and not move too quickly based on emotion and current enthusiasm.
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To me, it's not the length, it's the cut. There is the 'butch' cut favored by a certain type of woman; you know what I'm talking about. Then there's a severe short cut that I usually see on middle aged women, often out with their husbands, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they aren't gay. : )
It's just so unfeminine, I'm surprised the husbands don't say anything. It's like the women have given up. There are various cute short haircuts for all types of hair; I don't know why straight women would want to be so unattractive.
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Interesting posts about cliques. My sister joined 2 churches (same denomination) one after the other because the women were such gossips and in cliques. I don't think she goes at all anymore. I know gossip and such would turn me off. I'm also not interested in babies (my son is grown) and don't want to coo over a stranger's baby. I'm not antisocial; I'd just like to work on a project with some lively women while the kids are somewhere else.
We lost my husband when my son was a young teen. Over the years I have tried to get him to think about joining some kind of church. I really didn't care which, it just seemed like he was looking for the kind of girl who isn't in bars, etc. and I thought he needed something outside of himself to think about. He just isn't into it, however. He still feels God took his father and that's the end of that. On an intellectual level, he knows you don't always get what you ask for, but on an emotional level, he asked God to save his father and it didn't happen. Talking about religion to him has been like hitting my head on a brick wall ever since. Sigh.
Missionaries at the door!
in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints
Posted
So, another meeting, this time at my place and with the missionaries (one was a newbie) joined by a young couple. It turns out the couple just bought the house behind me! The husband is a PhD student and we had a good chat about the uni, academic jobs, etc. Even though I've been here for a few years, I don't really know a lot of people outside of work, so it was nice to meet some neighbors. The wife works from home and has a toddler, so I'm sure she's happy to meet somebody new people as well. I'm home a lot, so it would be nice to know someone who has free time during the day to do things. They told me a lot about the local church - the type of people in the congregation, it's 'feel,' etc.
Anyway, we discussed the Plan of Salvation, complete with diagram from the young missionary. I think they need to have 2 versions of their lessons. It's not like I never read the Bible, or don't know biblical history. I think it's one thing to talk to someone who's completely unfamiliar with basic Christianity and the bible and someone who attended parochial school for 12 yrs and then had college level work in comparative religion. I sat there because I figured this is how they learned how to present the material, but it was a little elementary.
I'm not sure how to address this in the future. I wanted to tell them to 'move on, I know that part,' but I know sometimes people have problems if they can't make the presentation the way the planned it. I'd done a lot of reading about Mormonism in the academic and popular press before I met the missionaries and would like to get into some intellectually deeper discussions, but I feel trapped listening to stuff that sounds like Sunday school for the kids.
Don't get me wrong, I think they are nice guys and they are doing their best, but I'd also like something more. Plus, what can I say - they are like young college guys to me - I want to make them dinner and make a plate for them to take back home. : )
Still, it was very pleasant - the young couple had both been missionaries and they sure knew their scripture! My son came home in time to meet them, which I think he needed to do so he could see what kind of people his mom's been hanging around with.
So, that's my report for this week. I'd just like to add that you folks sure are happy, aren't you? : )