boo60

Hey Pam Nope haven't been asked again yet, however they did say watch out I'll be getting a calling soon. I just liked the openess of the forum so much I wanted to get answers to some more questions I've always had, because sometimes in church you don't get an answer, you get some old people pretending to answer the question but they are actually just droning on about their lives. Then people look at you a bit weird at church because you're asking weird questions, so this is the perfect place! I agree he wasn't buried he was placed in a tomb. There must be something special about the "don't touch me" thing, I'm just wondering what it is.

Can anyone tell me what happened during the three days he was being resurrected. His spirit went to prison. What happens to the body? What is the significance of 3 days? Why did he tell Mary "don't touch me, I haven't yet ascended to my father in heaven" What does that mean? So he was a body and spirit when he saw Mary but the resurrection wasn't complete?

Let me just give you an example now as I finish of Abraham Lincoln. I just want to show you how this happens every day in real life. If you want to see how intelligence overcomes the demands of justice, watch this. There was a boy fighting in the Union Forces. 19 years old. Went to sleep on guard duty. And the opposition broke through and wiped out a whole flank of the army. Several hundred were killed, including some of the best friends of this young man. But he survived. Court-martialed. Sentenced to die. He expected to die. He thought it was only just that he die. And president Lincoln was ready to sign his death warrant for his execution and a little mother appears on the scene. She says, “President Lincoln, when this war started, I had a husband and six sons. First I lost my husband, and one by one I lost five of my sons. Now I only have one son left and he’s sentenced to be executed with a firing squad because he went to sleep. He feels awfully badly, he lost some of his best friends and he expects to die. President Lincoln, I’m not asking for the sparing of this boy’s life for his sake, but for his mother’s sake. He’s all I have left. For my sake could you spare him?” President Lincoln said, “For your sake, little mother, I will spare him.” And as far as I know President Lincoln was never criticized for that decision.

So Sacrament meeting is over, and it was awesome! I've never had so many comments after a sacrament talk, people coming up and saying it made sense, and they'd never thought of it that... I'm feeling pretty cool, this was definitely the right place to come for help with a talk. I talked about the crucifixion, the intelligences, agency, satan, that president lincoln story, a couple of funny jokes from Pam, and VIOLA! Thanks guys, and most importantly I've learnt SO much.:D:D:D

The blood in the garden. Wouldn't Moses 6 refer to the shedding from every pore that took place in the garden of gethsemene. And embarrased to say, but I've done seminary/institute, can flick through my scripture mastery with ease, know the scripture. When I was younger I understood the crucifixion, and atonement as a child, and also as a youth would understand it. Now as I have to explain it to others I keep getting stuck on the WHY? Why did we need the garden of eden, couldn't they have come down and been created already knowing good from evil? But we needed it explained to us in a way we could understand so we have Genesis, creation, fall etc. I don't understand the bits and pieces to the atonement. Overall its a great, I get to go to heaven. But on closer inspection, WHY? I get that I sin. I get that there needs to be a consequence. I get that there is punishment, justice and mercy. I just haven't made the connection between atonement and agency yet.... it feels like I'm almost there.

I think sometimes we do look too closely at principles until we can't see the forest for the trees. But when given this talk (3 days til Sunday) I was told the Atonement was in 2 parts, the garden and the crucifixion, at which point I thought. "what the heck?" So now I'm studying like crazy trying to figure out what Part 1 is, and what Part 2 is. Because it seems to me, everyone else understands it! And I'm feeling like an egg who can't put the pieces of a puzzle together.

That quote from Moses 6 goes on about blood. But doesn't that mean the blood in the garden, not the blood from the cross?

THANK YOU!!! Wow, this is like finding a hidden treasure. I'm finding I may not have the mental capacity to understand the Atonement, but I'm going to try.

Your messages have been great, I think I'm getting it. I am/was getting confused about the fall and original sin and all that. I kept thinking Eve/Adam and the fall. Because of that quote "As descendants of Adam and Eve, all people inherit the effects of the Fall. In our fallen state, we are subject to opposition and temptation" BUT its actually about the plan of salvation. My question has always been the WHY. Correct me if I'm wrong again. Jesus Christ came up with the plan that we fall. We get agency essentially sinners. Jesus Christ had to come and suffer for that plan. Why did he have to die for the plan? Is this one of those sealed in blood things? The atonement is because of the plan of salvation?

I think I just clicked on the crucifixion. So the atonement is two parts, garden and crucifixion. CRUCIFIXION: He was crucified because thats the way it was done. If he was here today, it would be firing squad or electric chair. Instead of getting a beating by the Romans in jail and giving up the ghost, who could give testimony? So it was kind of a media release/public relations exercise. Everyone saw him, no one could deny he was killed (spear), romans and jews saw him die. Everyone saw the weather turn nasty when he died. So I'm fine with that so far. But why did he have to die. Was it also so everyone could see? Couldn't he have done the garden, then gone on for 30-40 years preaching?

Hi Lets try this again, can anyone explain the atonement? Just a simple why it was needed? Why can't Heavenly father just forgive us without the atonement?

Thought I'd take a deep breath there. So why do we need an atonement?I read that story about the kids who make up the rules, then a little kid steals and has to take the lashings, and the big kid jumps in and says I'll take them for him. Essentially mercy and justice was what the story was trying to convey. But when I read the story all I can think is:I didn't steal so why would I have to get the lashings?Not wanting to put down another religion, but feeling guilt for guilts sake, seems awfully catholic to me.Why did we need an atonement? why can't we just come on down, get judged

Need a bit of help. I've got 3 days until I give a talk on the Atonement and most of it doesn't make any sense to me. I know I can get up at Sacrament and spout off some stories and quotes, throw a testimony on the end, and viola! However I'd rather know what I'm talking about, so here are my questions if anyone can help me out. In no particular order: 1. Quote from LDS.org "Jesus's atoning sacrifice took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross at Calvary" So he atonned in the garden and on the cross? What does that mean, I'll atone for people with surname A-M in the garden and those with surname N-Z on the cross? Why did he need to atone in both places? Whats with the crucifixion? Couldn't he just have fallen over, hit his head on a rock and died then been resurrected? 2. Quote from LDS.org "As descendants of Adam and Eve, all people inherit the effects of the Fall. In our fallen state, we are subject to opposition and temptation." I mean are you kidding? The fall again, what does that have to do with the atonement? I don't understand. Eve ate an apple, now Christ has to atone for it? I think I've missed the point??? 3. How can Jesus Christ atone for every sin. His death/suffering in Gethsemene is just one guy. His suffering for 2 days makes up for billions of people sinning, and millions of murders/rapes. Seems a little one sided, wouldn't it make sense that his sacrifice covers one person? Doesn't seem like justice has been served, he suffers for a few days then all sins can be atoned for? Does anyone else think this is one sided?