myalternate
-
Posts
38 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by myalternate
-
-
Well said. Maybe becuase it is still so fresh on my mind that I am a bit sensative to remarks made however well intended. And that is why I commented at all on the subject. I am not offended. Just suggesting that maybe it is not the same experience one might expect being on the other side of the table. Chathartic is a good description of how it was for me. I don't expect people to be perfect with the way they express themselves. Just to be careful. He was describing it from his point of view and I described it from mine. I believe that the repentant soul might relate more to my experince than the other. The original question was about what could he expect, not what was your experience with attending a disciplinary council? Thanks for your reply.
-
Cwilli24,
I asked this question on this forum a few years ago. Be careful because some of these people can be very very harse. Don't listen to most of them. That said, it was here that I found hope for my future from some very kind and Christ like individuals. You are doing the right thing by even considering repentance. It is a very personal experience even though others will have to know what you did and will try to help. What I did sounds much worse than you. If you go to your bishop being fully repentant I don't think you will have to go through what I did. It does vary from bishop to bishop I am afraid. I know how you are feeling. I had to build up a whole lot of courage to confess what I did and knowing what to expect helped me do that. Someone who hasn't been through it will have a hard time knowing where your mind and heart are at this time. Have faith and do the right thing and everything will workout.
-
I didn't say he wasn't allowed to have a spiritual experience. I even said "perhaps it was for him". This thread is about what this person might expect if he confesses his sins. I am just suggesting that it might not be a sprititual experience for who the council is about. It is great that this person had a spritual experience but don't sell it as this is the experience the sinner might expect. My SP did that to me and it wasn't true. It is an important part of the repentance process but not a comfortable one. I imagine it might be a faith promoting spiritual experience for someone to witness a person repent and humble themselves enought to confess their sin to 15 men. Maybe even a wakeup call to some. And then to see that same person come back into full fellowship with the church. What's not to like about that? Does this help you understand where I am coming from?
-
It bothers me a bit when someone on the otherside of the table says what a spiritual experience it was to be part of a diciplinary council. Perhaps it was for you but having been the object of discussion for such a council I can tell you it was one of the worst experiences of my life. I was disfellowshipped for a year for havning a 3 month adulterous affair with a married woman. I repented and a year later was released from being disfellowshipped. But having to sit in those councils were so emotionally and physically draining and humiliating, I would never say that they were a spiritual experince. Memorable? yes. I don't want to forget because I never want to be there ever again. So.. unless you have been where I have been I would be careful suggesting that it will be a spritiual experience.
-
I went to the temple for the first time back whe the sessions included more things like references to punishments if you didn't keep your covenants. That was way weird. I thought this is not the same church I grew up in either. You used the term tricked. I felt very similar. I had no preperation for what I went through. Then I got shipped off on a mission to sit and think about that experience for 2 years before I was able to go again. Very foreign. I don't get all warm an fuzzy about going to the temple either. I enjoy doing sealings and being reminded of the covenants I made a t marriage and doing baptisms for the dead. I understand all that. Not sure the endowment and washing and annointings still make much sense to me. I am a man so the garment thing is no big deal. I understand what you are saying about the female garment though. My wife has said the same thing. At least we have options our parents and grand parents didn't.
-
I can do better. You obviously know this by now. I am overwhelmed at present. I usually work with others personal problems professionally. I came here expecting something spiritually different. Please allow me to take a closer look at the matter. Maybe I can help. :)
I'm pretty sure it is too late for your help with this one. Maybe you should go sell your services somewhere else for awhile.
-
Bottom line. Did she or did she not? You have to decide can I stay with her if she did and can I stay with her if she lied? If the answer is yes to both then you need to do whatever you can to make her want to be with you. You are probably a good person but the only way you will change her and perhaps persuade her to be more honeset is by changing yourself. Also, find ways to serve her more even if you feel she doesn't deserve it. It will break her down and her heart will soften. Let her know that if she falls you will be there and that you are willing to forgive her. I was told recently that trust is not earned but given. You will have to give her your trust even if she betray's it. That is what the Savior does for us time and time again. Good luck. And bless you for trying.
-
Although it is hard, dual religion marriages and families can work.QUOTE]
If "Until death do us part" is what you are looking for. Some can't make up their minds when offering advice.
-
, but if you did then you would at least be able to stay with him while going back to church.
And she can't go back to curch if she stays with him?
-
We are not telling you you have no place here. We are tired of your "I don't know what to do" statements. You "acting" like you don't know what you should do smacks to some of us (perhaps many of us) of pity seeking and justifying. Why? Because, you already KNOW the answer. So spirit up and get it started.
Nice. You are right. I knew the answer before I even came to this place. So tell me why you are here if this makes you so weary?
-
I admit I have come across at times as "begging for mercy". I am sure that Christ would just say "Man up and do the right thing you coward." Obviously you are way beyond where I am. You said it yourself " Seen it done it, got over it." I still don't believe I have tried to manipulate anyone. Do you feel manipulated? You don't sound as though you would let many convince you much of anything. Communication through the written word is very interesting as it often can be interpreted different that what it was intended. I don't need capt'n obvious to point out that my crisis of faith is of my own doing. I can take my strips and I will when that time comes. I can't imagine anyone not feeling like commiting adultery was not that bad or trying to excuse it. The fact is the battle between spirit and the natural man is real. I appreciate your insight from someone who has been through it. I hope none of us chase someone away from this forum who is losing this battle and who's cry's for help are dismissed as manipulative and are told they have no place here.
-
Well , at least the list is on "when" you do confess right ? Not anyones call here, but I believe Formal Disciplinary action,or Disfellowship, but any one of those is better than the list of what will happen if you dont repent. Any one of those is a way back.... except for the Nothing. Something will happen, and it will be good.
Thank you for your comments. They are encouraging and I appreciate that.
-
Chances are it will be disfellowship, depending on what callings you have held in the past. However, it all depends upon the Spirit and other circumstances involved: whether you willingly went to the bishop about it, or if someone else had to drag you to it, how long ago it occurred, whether it happened once or more than once, etc.
The bishop will send it to the stake president to handle. The stake president will counsel with you regarding this. Then he will bring together a disciplinary council consisting of the stake presidency and high council. They will hear your case, see how sorrowful you are, etc. The stake presidency will then retire to prayerfully consider what to do. They will return, discuss it privately with the high council, who will sustain the final decision. You will then be brought back in to hear the decision. Each of these brethren will then offer you a handshake and hug, and will willingly help you return back into full fellowship.
Thank you for your answer. I thought it only goes to the stake president if you are being excommunicated? I will be coming forward willingly. I am repentant. I have done everything I am supposed to do since forsaking the sin except confess. That is going to be the hardest thing to do and I am scared. The answer to what will happen to me won't change whether I confess or not. I am just preparing myself for what lies ahead. I am not looking for sympathy or someone to tell me what I did was ok. If I were, I wouldn't be coming to any of you that is for sure. I am looking for answers, reassurance and love. All you have to do is read this whole thread and you will see the change that is slowly coming to my heart. I can only hope that none of those in my disciplinary council are as judgemental as some in this forum have been.
-
It takes a lot of humility and submissiveness to give ones self over to the will of the Lord.
Indeed it does.
-
FM, there are two things going on here.
1) The OP really doesn't want our advice
2) The OP really wants our sympathy.
Either way, his posts have been manipulative and should be ignored. He knows what to do. He just want's someone to tell him it's ok, when it's not.
What are you talking about? Who is the OP? Who am I trying to manipulate? Consider the frame of mind someone in my situtation might be in. Unless you have been where I am you will never know. I am in the middle of the biggest test of faith yet I am at the weakest point I have ever been. When I confess, it will be laying it all on the line for my faith. I have taken the advice of many who have posted to this thread. I have a reason to be here. You might ask yourself what your purpose is in commenting on this forum.
-
Temple married father of 4 young children. Served mission. Full tithe payer. 100% church attendance. Holds callings. Never had problem like this before, commits adultery. Forsakes the sin. Feels deep remorse and wants to repent fully, so willingly confesses to the bishop and starts the repentance process. What will happen to him?
Excomunication
Disfellowship
Formal disciplinary action
Nothing
-
It's not about punishing you. It's about her right to know. If she were cheating on you, would you want her to hide it?
No. I wouldn't. I would be hurt but I would forgive. But then again, this is coming from someone who is not in a very good position to judge. Thank you.
-
Myalternate, what was your purpose on posting on this board? It doesn't seem like you are looking for advice. Rather, it looks like you are looking for justafication, as well as a fair dose of pity. No one should pity you. You are suffering because the Lord often harrows our hearts and minds so that we will seek repentance, and the comfort associated with it. What you appear to be doing is trying to feel better about not repenting. Nothing will ever make you feel better about breaking commandments.
As for your statement about as long as you live your life living your covenants, there seems to be some confusion here; you can not live a covenant that has the prerequisite of cleanliness (temple covenants, priesthood covenants, baptismal covenants) when you are dirty. True, you may go through the motions, but much like the saducees and pharisees, you will be drawing near God with your lips while your heart is far from Him.
I know this post seems harsh, but sometimes in life we need harshness. If everyone coddled you and told you it would be ok, we would do you a huge disservice.
So please, Myalternate, stop wasting your families time and get back on the ONLY path to happiness.
WOW! Welcome to this thread. You really have a way with words. Did you read beyond the first few posts? You might want to use the quote option so you get what I said right. I wouldn't expect the brother of the prodigal son to understand what I am going through. I posted here because I made a terrible mistake and I have no where to turn to ask these questions. Fortunatly there are a few saints who have responded to my "pity party" that have made a difference in my attitude and way of thinking regarding my current situation. I am not looking to be coddled but to find truth, understanding and to feel the love of my heavenly father through others so that I can have the strength and courage to do the right thing. I suppose church for you is a graveyard of saints where mine is more of a hopspital for sinners.
-
No, I'm saying the guy who got cheated on was dumped by his wife who claimed to be in love with the other man.
Your wife must be picking up on your misery, which would be distressing for her not to know what's going on. Suicide is not the answer. Keeping it a secret for decades is not the answer. Your wife will probably surprise you and stay with you even though she said before that she would leave. How could you have true intimacy in your marriage when you're hiding this from her? Yes, it will be hard, but it is the best thing for both of you for you to get the ball rolling and talk to the bishop, or maybe tell her first and let her know you made an appointment with him.
It's not going to get any easier the longer you wait. Please read this. Peace of Conscience and Peace of Mind The Lord wants you to have peace! Things might not turn out exactly how you want it, but having a clean conscience can give you peace again.
I reread that conference talk you mentioned. I remeber when that was given. Thank you. I noted that he said "May I suggest a way back? You can begin alone and proceed at your own pace. I invite you to carefully study the Book of Mormon. There are many scriptures that show how others have overcome barriers to repentance." I suppose following this advice will not be seen as procrastination. I have thought of doing this before reading this talk. I want to be repent to the point that when I confess to my wife, she will recognize that I have changed and that all I need is her forgiveness and our marriage can survive.
-
Repentence won't end his marriage. His affair will (maybe). Let's put the blame where it belongs: on the sin.
You are right. The title of this thread is incorrect. My sin will end my marriage. It already has according to the Lord. I am a slow learner apparently. There is very little joy in this life. You may disagree. My experience has been different. I served a mission teaching others the meaning of life when clearly I don't understand it myself. I came into this world alone and I suppose I will leave it the same way. I undenderstand I made a mistake. I understand I am to be punished. I have failed the test so let me go home.
-
repentance will not end your marriage, it is non existent right now. repentance will be the only thing that will re-instate your marriage.
You are not a father to your kids right now. you are an atm. You cannot be a proper father figgure by doing the wrong thing. by showing them that a man stands up to his mistakes and pays the price, you will be a father again.
You cannot lead your family, or your children to the tree of life in your current state. you will be trying to be a father for the duration of your childrens childhood without the benefit of the guidance of the Holy Ghost.
You cannot understand the horrible impact of living that lie will have in your home.
You cannot give your children priesthood blessings with any power, you can only fake it. that will be screaming wonderful for their understanding of the power of the priesthood and the gospel.
your reasoning is selfish, its for your sake that you want to be around to raise them, but it is not for their sake. if you were really worried about them, you would pay any price, any price to correct your mistakes so you could bless them as a father, and a priesthood holder if needed.
Everything about what I did was selfish. If I were to commit suicide it would be selfish. Selfish that I want to stay with my family. The fact that I am asking for advice is selfish. I agree with what it is you are saying for the most part. I guess some other father figure can raise my kids as well as I can. You are right. If my wife leaves me and takes my kids with them I guess that is what I deserve. Right? Sorting the wheat from the tares and I guess I know what I am now. I can just resign myself to the terrestrial kingdom and deal with it.
-
If you cheat on a spouse and they have to find out on the other side of the veil, you are a coward. That might be a bit plain for some folks, but there is no justice in living the lie and taking it to the grave.
I feel really badly for your spouse and kids. I suspect that this won't make you feel all warm and fuzzy, but it is the truth as far as I am concerned. Be a man, take your medicine, and work to make it right.
It is unbelievable that this is even a discussion. You should know better. Listen to someone besides the Adversary for a while...that might help.
Unbelievable until you are faced with making a similar decision?
-
I suggest you read President Monson's talk from last coference, the 3 R's of Choice. It talks about the right we have to choose, the responsibility that comes from our choices and the results of choice, he talks about how all of us make mistakes, but that is why the Lord atoned for us, so that we could repent.
It is not easy, but you are faced with a choice right now. I think deep down you know what is the right choice, but it's extremely difficult, intimidating and scary to know the consequences that may follow. Have courage to do what is right, despite anything. The Lord will carry you and once you feel the love of him through repentance you can finally be healed. A person who hasn't been in your situation can't possibly know how hard it is (I am one of those) but there is one path to God and we must be willing to accept the consequences in order to gain Eternal Salvation.
This is a test, your test, and to prove yourself worthy of the blessings of God and the presence of the Holy Ghost you must make the right choice. Seriously, read the article, it's a good one :) There is nothing more empowering than having sins washed away and feeling clean again. Take care of it now so you can become free of the chains of bondage that now hold you because of your actions.
We are on this earth to prove ourselves worthy of eternal life. Don't waste the days of your proabation. There is nothing in this world that is worth risking your eternal life. I make no judgement on you as a person except that we are all here, making mistakes but moving toward the same goal...I would hope that people will help carry you despite your sins......we are all sinners afterall. I would avoid the danger of justifying your reasons for not repenting as we know that is Satan's greatest tool. Have courage and get it over with! :)
Thank you. Unlike some who have posted comments to this thread I feel the spirit when I read your message. Thank you. I believe what you say. I want to believe that things will be ok but that is what scares me the most. I came to this forum so that I could talk myself into doing what is right with some help from all of you. I am still weak spiritually and have nowhere to turn for help but anonymous sources like this.
-
I'm just wondering if pride is a factor here in not confessing. If you confess, then everyone seems to find out about it, and not only is your family hurt, but your reputation at church and in the community is damaged also. It's very hard to humble ourselves and admit we've made a mistake. If I was in this situation, my biggest difficulty would be the embarrassment, because I care about what others think of me. I would hate everyone knowing that I cheated on my spouse. I have a much easier time forgiving others than I do myself.
You need to forgive yourself. You made a mistake. Just remember, "...though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18 This is why we have the atonement. The Lord wants you to accept the atonement he made for YOU. He loves YOU. YOU are his younger brother. He is YOUR elder brother. Again, I repeat, He loves YOU. Even, if your life comes crashing down around you, and maybe even your families, just remember this. He loves YOU. And the reason I capitalize YOU, it's because we often feel like the atonement is for everyone else but ourselves. We might believe in the atonement, but when it comes to ourselves, it's hard to internalize it--that it's for ME too.
I once made a mistake in my life where I felt "How can the Lord still love me? With all my knowledge and testimony, how could I have disappointed the Lord like this?" After many years of tears, praying, and asking for forgiveness, I received a definite answer to my prayers one night. "He's only disappointed if you don't repent". I felt such relief, and such a heavy burden was lifted from my shoulders. I had gone through the repentance process. I had repented. I just hadn't allowed the atonement to apply in MY life. I was so harsh on myself. Anyone else with the same problem, I would have forgiven immediately--but not myself.
Repent, and feel the Savior's love for you. It will bring such sweet peace. Continue to love your wife. Express sorrow to her. Ask her for forgiveness. Express sorrow to your children. Ask for their forgiveness. It is then up to them to forgive you. They may not be able to do it at first. It may be a process that may take some time. It may be that you end up divorced. But, when one door closes, another one will open. It won't be the end of your life. You will still have sweet, wonderful events happen in your life. You are a son of our Father in Heaven. He sent you to this earth, knowing you would make mistakes. Accept the Lord's atonement for you. I'll pray for you.
Perhaps you are right about the pride. However I don't worry to much about what others think except my family. I want them to be proud of me and who I am not ashamed. I also truely want to spare my wife and kids further harm but at the same time give them the opourtunity to forgive me. I don't know how both can be accomplished by confessing my sin unless it is only done in very general terms. Thank you for the kind reassuring words. I have felt very alone for a long time. Even before I commited this sin I didn't feel as though I mattered much to the Lord. I have not lost my testimony nor buried my conscience. My faith however is weak. I don't blame anyone but me for my actions but we all know that it is our human frailty to try and understand. I had been suffering from depression and was on medication for that. My wife and I had not been seeing eye to eye and where going to counseling. The company I have worked for 11 years laid off half of their employees and a lot of my friends. I thought I was out of work for 4 months until they changed their mind. It was a perfect storm of conditions and I was weak. When presented with the temptation I gave in without much of a fight. Not only once but multiple times with the same woman. I am different now and get a sick feeling when I think about what it was that I did and how I got there. I never want to feel this way again. Thank you for your prayes. I know he answers them. It has been a while since I have heard from him but I believe he talks with others because I hear your stories. Maybe he will comunicate with me again someday.
What punishment will I receive?
in Advice Board
Posted
I promise this is the last comment I am making on this thread. The point that I am arguing is in regard to the original question "Can anyone tell me exactly what may be in store for me punishment wise"? IF he has a council HE will be the focus of all discussion not part of the council deciding his fate. I am only saying if you have never been on the other side of the table you can not relate to what that person will be going through. Period. You were part of the council with nothing at stake. But you telling this person it was a sprititual experience is as unrelated as me telling him I had a spiritual experience blessing the sacrament when I was 17. Good for the both of us. But neither of those experiences relate to what this person will likely experience. In an attempt at empathy you said you can relate but you can't. Just like I cannot relate to the experience you had because I have never been involved in a diciplinary council other than my own.