Alyosha

You obviously haven't looked into very many christian faiths. lol No offense. That or you just go by what some of their members tell you. Perhaps speculation is just prohibited at church and seminary for LDS? That's how it was for me when I grew up in the church in Utah and Idaho. They recommend only accepting what the Holy Spirit reveals. So I guess as long as you can tell the difference between your mind speculating and the still small voice, then it's probably fine.

I'm not saying we would be either perfect or utterly corrupt. Just that we would be perfect or have at least one sin, and when I say sin I mean having knowingly chosen to sin. The reason I say that it is sort of a paradox that half the world isn't sinless is because for a person who isn't disposed to choose sin over non-sin, he or she would always be in the 50/50 decision range. Of course, once that first sin is committed, then one could grant that the individual is becoming more disposed to sin, having tasted the the fruit, figuring out that it tastes good, even though it is bitter in one's stomach. PM me if you want to see my take.

I'll give a hint. One time in seminary class our teacher asked us to fill in a sudoku puzzle: but the puzzle was blank, so we didn't have much to go by. None of us could get it right. Then we got sudoku puzzles of easy difficulty. Though not a majority, many of us could fill in the blanks. We have a sudoku puzzle of easy difficulty. Consider the Standard Works: Genesis and the Letters of Paul in particular. Now, there is one last piece. It's in The Articles of Faith of the LDS church. The LDS church considers the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. One last clue: one of the hints I gave isn't part of the sudoku puzzle.

Maybe the question you should have asked is "could I have been perfect (sinless)?" I think you would have to admit yes to this question, otherwise choice between good and evil is an illusion, e.g. if no, then God would have basically forced you to sin, but that is impossible, obviously. I remember learning this when I was about a twelve at sunday school. We then had a discussion of how remote that possibility was (oops, not supposed to speculate--about doctrine, that is). Is it so remote that it might as well have been impossible? I think it was more like a 50/50 chance, or more properly, a 50/50 decision that first time I sinned. If God had made me more susceptible to sin than righteousness, then I don't think that would have really constituted leaving me to my of agency. But then, that begs the question: why isn't half the world sinless and half the world defiled? There is a good answer to this, but I want to make whoever reads this think about it.

Do LDS consider the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost to be the same thing? The LDS prayer format addresses God the Father and Jesus Christ. Why doesn't it address the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit?

You made a good point about the LDS welfare system (my dad used to work in the agricultrual management department of the church, so I got to see this kind of stuff first hand, truly it is amazing). To me though, if I die of starvation I wouldn't mind, the pains of this life are really nothing to worry about considering staying alive longer won't necessarily affect my salvation. I can see how it might affect a weaker person's salvation though, since some people are wont to curse God when they suffer. I see suffering as a way to get closer to God, since Jesus Christ suffered to an incomprehensible extent. I don't advocate seeking ways to suffer though, lol. Like one time I read about these monks who wanted to be martyrs so much that they asked pagans to kill them. One guy said to them "okay, but let me tie you up first." "Okay," the monks said. The pagan then proceeded to beat them with a club and then left them to struggle out of the cords. Oh, here's another thing the LDS here could help me with to understand their faith: perhaps I'm special in this regard, but I get what the LDS consider to be feelings of the Holy Ghost about some pretty strange things at times. For example, if I used the feelings to ascertain the truth of something, then I would have to believe that the human race was not created by God, but by some vagante aliens from a planet in our solar system that isn't even considered to exist by modern astronomers. So, basically, when I am investigating the different sects, I try to find the ones that are most consistent. This doesn't bode well for the churches that I have investigated so far, especially any protestant, roman catholic, restorationists, fundamentalists, universalists... well, basically every church I have been to. There is a church though that can trace it's lineage back to the 12 apostles, has an open canon, only accepts scripture as far as it is translated correctly, believes in continuing public revelation, and doesn't admit to having one infallible leader who God will kill before he could ever lead the faithful astray. I won't say what church this is, since I'm not sure of the policy here about proselytizing. Granted, said church has some strange customs that would appear heretical to many. Perhaps I have said too much... well, nevermind. You get an idea of my current perspective. This should help you help me if anyone wishes to post something to address what I am concerned with. Mostly, I'd like to hear about how to discern what comes from God. What comes from Satan, and what comes from man. Perhaps there is a thread some of you know about on this topic. I do know quite a lot though about things like "heart on fire," "swelling in the chest," "being struck by lightning," and the comforts such as peace, love and understanding. Then of coure there's the problem of pictures and situations that can be interpreted in two distinct ways, but without the ability to read minds, which interpretation is correct is illusive. So what do you all think? Are these good questions?

In relation to what has been said about what is meant by eternity, I must ask: how final is final judgement? Is it final for eternity? Once upon a time while I was reading D&C I got a sense that damnation is really just indefinite damnation, in the sense that sometime in the infinite future, one may be able to go from a lower kingdom to a higher kingdom. Or that Satan and his followers might just get bored and realize the futility of their existence of hatred and God might have mercy on them. I don't know. I know this is way out there. Any scriptures to reference would be much appreciated. But do you see where I'm coming from? When what is meant by eternity isn't really clear, then one has doubts about things like finality.

I feel kind of bad for asking this, as it might shake someones faith in Jesus Christ, but here it goes: in light of what has been written in this thread, what are we to make of the scriptures that state "For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity." and "Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?" Also, for other forms of Christianity that lead to deification, there is the Eastern Orthodox Church (second largest church of christianity; the Roman Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church used to be the same church until about 1000 AD when the pope excommunicated the Eastern Orthodox priests and then the Eastern Orthodox patriarchs excommunicated the pope and those who submit to the doctrines of the church lead by the pope), though I am still analysing it to see if it is actually "orthodox." I hope no one thinks I'm am proselytizing. Some of you seemed ignorant of the practice of becoming perfect in churches other than the LDS church. I would recommend following your heart. For different people this will mean different things. Some people's deepest desire is to be against God, sad as this might sound, I have met people who know God, yet curse Him, and the are lost, but it is their choice, and the one thing that we can all agree on is that God let's us choose whether or not we want to be with Him. For others, the exact opposite is true. Remember the words of the first apostles? God would rather we be hot or cold, not luke warm. Anyway, I like that the LDS church emphasizes becoming perfect. God bless.

Can you say anything about the infinite regress of Gods begetting Gods? My LDS friend thinks that there is an infinite regress, but we don't need to worry about the ones that begot God the Father, since "He is the only God to us."

I was LDS until I went to college, now I am just plain christian and I have been investigating numerous churches. I am led back to the LDS faith at times to compare and contrast. The idea that we are to become perfect like God isn't unique to the LDS faith, btw. But anyway, I read in Gospel Principles a while back that the way our Heavenly Father became God was through a gradual process. That he came to an earth "like Jesus Christ did" to get a body, and afterwords, once attaining God-hood, he begot each and every one of us in the pre-earth life in heaven. I have also read that intelligences can't be made or destroyed, that they have no beginning or end, and that we all existed as intelligences prior to being begotten as spirit children of God the Father. I noticed the newer Gospel Principles manual doesn't talk about us having existed as intelligences prior to being begotten as spirit children of God. Is this something that has to remain a mystery? Or should we trust that Joseph Smith knew what he was talking about when he said that. Do I have all this correct? Also, why isn't the idea that God is an exalted man included in the Standard Works? Is it because the LDS don't actually accept that notion? That would seem strange, since the Gospel Principles manual is fairly clear when it said "This is how our Heavenly Father became God." Are official church publications to be trusted? I guess when it comes down to it you must trust the Holy Spirit. I don't know how to do a poll, but if you are LDS please say whether or not you believe God the Father was at one point an intelligence, then a spirit son of a God, then he got a body of flesh and bones, then he was exalted and begot us.