thebeliever

An interesting question is what does it mean for them to repent of something? I cannot know if someone else has fully repented of something. I can know if the Church (read: Bishop) has forgiven them. I can know if they've prayed to God for forgiveness. I can know that they have not repeated that particular action. But I don't know what they are really thinking. I don't know how sincere they were. How would I know if they repented of something?

I think everyone agrees that they are not "eternal sinners". But dealing with the initial question, My answer is yes, it does affect my opinion of them. If I understood correctly, yours and Pam's answer is that it doesn't or shouldn't. (Correct me if I'm wrong...)

Take it easy.

It's like forgiving someone for murdering someone you love. You can forgive them in your heart, but they should still go to jail.

Forgiveness is not the same as regaining what someone lost. I can forgive someone for cheating on me, but does it mean that I should stay with them? Is staying with them the same thing as forgiveness?

You don't have to look down upon me because I have a different opinion. We can have compassion on people who have committed major sins; they can be examples too. They can be completely forgiven by god. But they won't magically regain what they lost in this life.

That is, at the end of their lives they were probably about equal to each other, but at those points in time and for some time after, the son who had never left was much better off.

Right. The prodigal son got a fantastic party and nothing else, while the son who never left inherited everything that his father had.

Fair enough.

I meant to say, in this life they are worse off. In the eternities, it probably doesn't matter.

Fine. Replace my phrase with a particular sin. The person who lies and repents is worse off than the person who never lies. The person who is unchaste and repents is worse off than the person who is never unchaste. The person who steals and repents is worse off than the person who never steals. The person who murders and repents is worse off than the person who never murders.

I was thinking about people who will yell and scream at you compared to people who someone who will ignore you compared to someone who may firmly believe they are right but still listen. Certainly the reactions different - levels of pride. Maybe you wouldn't call that pride? Then it's just an issue of etymology.

The Great King David fell from his exaltation because he had sinned. No amount of repentance, regardless of how sincere he was, could make up for that fact. He had lost his exaltation. D&C 132:39 If I sin all my life and repent when I'm older, I would have lost out on all that I could have had. Perhaps I might have prophet or saved many souls? The person who sins and repents is not on the same ground as someone who never sins in the first place.

The thread is dealing with now in this life, not 100,000 years from now. We all agree with you on this statement.. I think.

So someone is either proud or they aren't? Aren't there levels of pride ? and most people are only proud with certain topics.

But how do you know that they've really changed? I don't think I'd let a person who has been convicted of pedophilia around my children. The difference between pride and murder is the large cost if someone commits it. I might be proud now and lose a friend temporarily, but if I murder someone than I've lost a friend permanently. If you murder someone or get pregnant and repent versus only wanting to do it, you still have to deal with the consequences.

I never said that. I implied that they are more likely to be weak in that particular sin than someone who hasn't done it in the past. But enough of this.. I'm going to go do something else.

Why would they repudiate what Brigham Young said? It doesn't make any sense. Looks like I have something to research.

I don't have an answer for you. I've always thought that the Adam-God theory works really well symbolically. Occasionally a teacher will insinuate that it's a higher doctrine that not all might believe. There might be some literal elements of it. Without discussing the temple too much, I've always considered Adam as ourself and that we are part of God, a symbolic meaning to it. Maybe Adam-God contradicts, maybe it doesn't. I don't know.

But is making them strong referring to this life or the next? Even if someone gives up an addiction and repents of it, do you think you can trust them around that addiction in the future? The initial question was, "what do you think of people who have fully repented of a sin, versus someone who never committed it in the first place?" I've stated my position clearly.

A person who murders is not on the same level as someone who is sometimes a little too proud. Sure, neither of us can be in the presence of God unless we repent (but contrary to popular belief, you can be in the presence of god while being a sinner - see devil visiting with God in Job). But, even if neither of us ever repents, the murderer will go to the terrestial kingdom and the other person will go to the telestial kingdom.

Bwahaha. I like you Suzie. Of course I'm a sinner.

Maybe in the grand eternities it all ends up being the same, but you lose something in this life by sinning, even if you do repent. You can't regain what you lost.

Thank you for clarifying.

When did the church repudiate it?