ResLight

Yes, independent groups in Russell's day studied Russell's works, and independent groups continued to study Russell's works after Rutherfordformed his organization that sought to take away the independence of the independent groups. Most of those who had been associated with the independent groups of Bible Students in the days of Russell rejected Rutherford's new organization. Thus, as a whole, the Bible Students movement, which was comprised of independent congregations in many countries, continued their business without subjecting themselves to the claimed rulership of Rutherford. In order to distinguish his new organization from the general Bible Students movement, in 1931 Rutherford had his followers adopt the name "Jehovah's Witnesses".

I am not sure exactly what is being asked as related to what I had stated. I studied the LDS literature many years ago but do not remember now exactly what the LDS thought is concerning the 144,000, the twelve tribes, the great multitude, Sheol/Hades and Gehenna, or the second death. I am not with the JWs, but what Russell taught and what the JWs teach are not the same, and my beliefs, although very close that of Russell, are not exactly the same as that of Russell in all details, and my views are certainly a lot different from that of the JWs. Russell taught that hades/sheol is the condition described in Ecclesiastes 9:10, which is the result of the condemnation of death that is in Adam. (Romans 5:12-19) He believed that Gehenna represents a second condemnation, that is, the second death, for which there is no ransom provided. He did not believe in any eternal conscious suffering of dead humans at all; he believed that the dead are dead and not conscious of anything while they are in the condition of sheol/hades. Those who receive the second condemnation are also oblivious, but for eternity, since there is no ransom provided for them. The JWs believe similar, except that they would condemn many of the world to Gehenna who have never been released from the first condemnation in Adam, and who are still blinded by Satan, thus denying that they need to be enlightened and given opportunity by such enlightenment to obey. Not only this, they teach that children of such will be eternally destroyed without ever being enlightened. This is a major difference from Russell; indeed, it ends up presenting a message that is almost the opposite of that which Russell presented. Russell taught that Adam and all who are dying in Adam are ransomed and will be enlightened before being finally judged as to worthiness of life or eternal destruction. The JWs teach that Adam was not ransomed (which, in effect, negates the whole basis of the ransom sacrifice), and they further teach that not all who are dying in Adam are ransomed. Rutherford began introducing such doctrine in 1923; by 1929 he denied the basis of the ransom sacrifice by saying that Adam was not ransomed. He later, in effect, declared that all outside of his organization would be eternally destroyed in Armageddon. Oddly enough, the JWs claim that past generations will be raised in the resurrection of judgment, while the present generation, although under greater influences of deception than ever before in history, are now being judged as to whether they are worthy to live forever or to be eternally destroyed even thought they are still blinded by Satan. Russell showed from the Bible that Adam did not lose life in heaven, but rather life on earth, and therefore, the ransom sacrifice provides only for what Adam lost, that is, life on earth. Thus, Russell believed that most of mankind will be raised in resurrection, not with spiritual bodies, but rather with physical, earthly bodies. Russell concluded that the 144,000 as well as the great multitude are exceptions (he seemed not too sure about identifying the twelve tribes of Revelation 7); he believed that both of these groups -- the 144,000 and the great multitude -- would receive spiritual, celestial bodies in the resurrection. (His perspective led him to this conclusion; I differ in that I believe that the sons of God of this age are accounted life on the terrestrial plane until they attain the goal of the prize of the high calling; then they are accounted life on the celestial plane, and if they fail to attain that goal in this age, they are pictured either of the 12 tribes or the great multitude; the 144,000 sealed out of the 12 tribes gain the prize to rule as joint-heirs with Christ on heavenly Mt. Zion are pictured in Revelation 7 and 14 as 144,000. I believe that the remainder of the church pictured in the 12 symbolic tribes and the great multitude do not gain that prize of the high calling, and that thus, they continue to be accounted life on the terrestrial plane, not on the celestial plane.) Russell believed that the church existed amongst all of the denominations that profess Christianity. He was not threatening people with a message of join us or be eternally destroyed as Rutherford did. Indeed, his message was that once the present subjection to vanity has done its work, God was about to bless all peoples -- both living and dead. The JWs believe that the 144,000 are those who go to heaven, and all others that they judge to be worthy of life will receive life on earth. They believe that the last members of the 144,000 are in their organization, and they they constitute the faithful and discreet slave class, and that one has to come to that faithful and discreet slave if they wish to be saved from the coming eternal destruction. (Russell did not teach this.) Likewise, the JWs claim that the "great multitude" of Revelation are within their organization, and that these all survive Armageddon to live in new earth. Their publications generally confuse the 12 tribes of Revelation 7 with the 144,000 as though there were only 12,000 in each tribe, whereas in reality, the scripture shows that there 12,000 sealed out of each of the twelve tribes. I have tried to present this as briefly and as clearly as I can, and I am not sure if this fully clarifies matters or not, as I have presented three sets of beliefs, or viewpoints, that of Russell, myself (which is very close to that of Russell's), and that presented by the JWs. Christian love, Ronald

I came across this forum through Google searches for Charles Taze Russell. I have been studying Russell's works for more than 50 years. Russell himself was never associated with, and did not believe in, an organization such the Jehovah's Witnesses. Nor did Russell ever believe in the message that is preached by the Jehovah's Witnesses; Joseph Rutherford actually formed the organization after Russell died, and in doing so, Rutherford rejected the central teaching of Russell concerning the ransom for all, and replaced that teaching with a doctrine that basically says, "Join us, or be eternally destroyed in Armageddon." Thus, this message is almost the very opposite of what Russell taught. Charles Russell, in his sermon "To Hell and Back - Who Are There?", gave a summary of what he believed when he was 17, and how he came to see that the Bible does not teach what many generally think of as "hell". Russell stated in that sermon: "I thoroughly believed this doctrine you may know when I tell you that at 17 years of age it was my custom to go out at night to chalk up words of warning in conspicuous places, where working-men passing to and fro might see them, that peradventure I might save some from the awful doom." This sermon is online at several sites, such as mostholyfaith.com, and one can probably find others through searches of a search engine such as Google or Yahoo. Russell came into contact with some of the Second Adventists who showed him what the Bible really says about hell, as well as how Christ's ransom sacrifice -- the ransom for all -- is the basis for the blessing of all the families of the earth when Christ returns. (This teaching of the ransom for all and restitution was not a general teaching amongst the Second Adventists.) Russell came to realize that the traditional "orthodox" teaching of man concerning hell was not what was found in the Bible, and greatly rejoiced at finding about how all who are dying in Adam will be blessed, thus reversing the effects of what Adam did.