cwald

Yeah, but this entire thread is about JP, is it not? Castigate those who witnessed the rape, not the guy who heard about it second hand. And for the record --- don't twist my words either. It goes both ways. You obviously didn't respect my opinion. Okay, but don't get all pissed off if i don't agree with yours.

Thank you. You must live in Eastern Oregon to be that far from the temple. I'm actually a member of the Bend Stake. Are we close? You can PM me if you want.

I'm true.

And, I have been walking on eggshells over here, btw. I have "behaved" myself I think, and been treated pretty rudely for the most part If I am not welcome, you can say so. I will leave and just let it be.

I don't know of any other NOMs over here besides The Beast, which is who told me about this site. If there are other NOMs, I would assume it is coincidental. I know of no grand conspiracy coming from the New Order Mormon website, if that is what you are asking. I can assure you I am VERY interested in "understanding" what active mormons, especially those from the morcor, believe and think, and how they interact with others who differ on faith and opinion. That is why I am here.

Okay, like I have been told over and over this month, don't make claims of truth that simply are not true. Coach P did not "witness" a raping of a child. So don't say he did. If he had, than there would be no discussion or argument. But that is not what happened. he heard about an incident second hand, and reported what he knew to his supervisor, which is what most of us are trained to do.

Hello all. For the last month or so, I have been lurking here mostly, and posting occasionally. Perhaps now is the time to introduce myself. I came to this site to see what active, everyday, orthodox LDS members were like. I am thinking about returning to some level of activity in the church, and just want to know if there is any point to doing so. (Please no need to respond to this comment though, as i have already addressed this in a separate thread.) Now, I am still a member even though I don't attend church. I was a blue-shirted, bearded, beer-drinking EQP for about five years ---- mostly out of default because there was no one else to do the job. . I remained an active mormon for years and served the people in my branch, and give a lot of credit to John Dehlin and his website StayLDS and the philosophy of finding a "Middle-Way" of involvement. I also post at NOM. I use my same avatar and call name for all of these sites and am not trying to troll your site in anyway. I have never been an "orthodox" LDS member, and I left the morcor almost 20 years ago, and moved to VERY remote part of Oregon and attended a small branch that is/was much different type of mormonism than what I find outside of my area. We do things a little different here. I quit the church because my family in Idaho, and so many of the members made me feel so uncomfortable and "unwelcome" with all the conservative politics, authoritarianism - like the 14 fundamentals of the prophet, and focus on what I would call Pharisaical commandments. That is just my opinion. That being said, I still love the mormon people. I think they are "true" for the most part. I still love my mormon family. I also love mormonism - the search for truth and enlightenment. I just don't like the church, the organization. From watching the "I Am Mormon Ads," I want to believe that the church I grew up in has evolved and has become much more progressive and tolerant of dissent and differing opinion, lifestyle, and perspective - perhaps I, the real cwald, is welcome in the Mormon church after all, and i want to be fair and give my tribe the benefit of the doubt that things are different now than when I lived in SW Idaho in the 80's. Since I live in remote Oregon, about two hours from the closest ward, and with the exception of my own family which i think is quite insane, I really have no idea of what "the church" is really like, and if they just want conformity, or if they really want diversity and people like me. I came here to find out. I hope this intro does not violate the board rules. It's just my sincere honest reason for lurking here. This is why I am here. Out

This. I think JP did what most employees would do, and just followed the chain of command. At my school, we are told to always report to the Principle/Supt. and let them handle it from there. I have a lot of respect for JP, and I feel for the guy. This has to be just sickening to him, to go down like this, after all the good he has done for the youth at that school. God bless Joe P.

I don't know if Christians would say that "it is necessary." I doubt it, but that is a good question. I don't know what they would say to that. I will let someone who is not LDS answer that question.

Perhaps you are right about Christians and the Mormon theology not being so much different. However, they (christains) probably would disagree, because we talk about "saving ordinance" that must be done on this planet in order for people to be saved, which is what this thread is dealing with. And in order to get those saving ordinances, there is a list of commandments (works) that members must follow to get into the mormon temple to get the ordinances. As far as NOM goes, There is no "general view" of anything or any doctrine (which is why they are NOMs), accept that it is okay to "believe" and follow whatever path you feel is right and will work for you. So, I can't really speak for them. I can only speak for myself, and try to determine what pathway, whether it is the LDS path, or another, that will work for me and my family.

Didn't Jesus address this with the parable of the workers of the field? God will pay what he will pay, and why should we care if we work all day, and get the same amount of pay as all the other folks, regardless of how much and how long they "worked." God is the master - and will save who he will save. I don't like to put god in a box, and make limitations to who he will save and why. Perhaps we just disagree with what it means to be saved. I understand that the LDS people believe in the whole, "saved by grace, after all you can do." I don't. And to be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to the Christian world outside of the Mormon church. But, I respect your belief, I just don't agree with it.

I don't understand how it could possibly be an essential gospel ordinance in order for one to be saved by grace - or else wouldn't the mormon people be doing it in proxy for the dead? The mormons do baptisms, washings, endowments and sealings for the dead, and they believe that all people need this ordinances. But as far as I know they don't do sacrament for the dead. To me, that is the answer to the question on whether or not the LDS church believes that the sacrament is necessary. Obviously, the mormon church officially does not believe it is essential for salvation and exaltation.

Perhaps I just don't understand the LDS theology or perhaps it's terminology ---- but I always believed that it is through the atonement of Christ that we can become clean - and that we can be "clean and spotless" every day of our lives if we accept Christ's atonement and strive to love him with all our hearts, might and strength. I don't understand why the sacrament is essential at all? I mean, what about all those who don't even know about this ceremony? Since we are all sinners, than if the only time we are "spotless and pure" was at baptism and in the temple ---- then the only people who will benefit from Christ's sacrifice would be those people who die immediately after those two events took place. What am I missing? I guess I am just re-asking the original OP question.

Yes, especially when one considers that 60-70% of the population are Guardians.

Yeah. I am an INFP. An idealists to the core.

Really? No. No. I don't want to derail this discussion. I started a separate thread.

I don't think you understand my question. I have a great relationship with the gods. And I am a disciple of Christ. I can do that without the LDS church. And, yeah, I will be upset if you parse my words about that, and it will tell me much about you and your beliefs about those of other faiths. I pray, I study scripture. I'm just trying to figure out if I want to worship with the mormon people.

Thanks all for the responses. I'm glad that LDS.net does not represent what I can expect at church. That is COMPLIMENT to the church btw, in case someone want to accuse me of breaking the board rules. this is what I was kind of hoping I would hear on this thread, because I am interested in returning to my tribe. Thanks applepansy.

I have read many comments on this board over the last few weeks. I followed the thread about fasting this week. here is my question, and I am VERY sincere - I am thinking about returning to the LDS church activity, and want to know if I can do so. Here is the question i asked on the Fasting thread, but please answer here as not to hijack that discussion. And, btw - I am not a "troll." Just trying to understand and figure out the culture that I loved, and left, long ago, and if it will accept me, me, and allow me a place if I decide to come back...A place that I can be comfortable and find the gods amongst like-minded spiritual, moral, ethical, people. Why do you treat each other like this? Wow. Is this what I have to look forward to if I go back to the LDS church? The amount of disrespect and utter disregard about different opinions on this board is scary to me. I don't get it. Maybe I need to find a different place to gauge the active LDS membership at this time, because this and other threads I've read and followed, is quite, disappointing to me, to be honest. Let me ask a question, a sincere question. Do you folk who participate on this board, represent the active, orthodox, membership of the LDS church? Maybe this should be a separate thread, so as not to hijack this Fasting discussion? If I go back to the mormon church, is this what I will be dealing with? Or is this just a bloggernacle thing, and church is much more civil? Don't answer here --- I will start a new thread. Thanks.

Why do you treat each other like this? Wow. Is this what I have to look forward to if I go back to the LDS church? The amount of disrespect and utter disregard about different opinions on this board is scary to me. I don't get it. Maybe I need to find a different place to gauge the active LDS membership at this time, because this and other threads I've read and followed, is quite, disappointing to me, to be honest. Let me ask a question, a sincere question. Do you folk who participate on this board, represent the active, orthodox, membership of the LDS church? Maybe this should be a separate thread, so as not to hijack this Fasting discussion? If I go back to the mormon church, is this what I will be dealing with? Or is this just a bloggernacle thing, and church is much more civil? Don't answer here --- I will start a new thread. Thanks.

I like the prophet Urchtdorf's speech awhile back where he says that, and I paraphrase here, because I can't remember the whole quote, that "we should quit worrying so much about all the should's and should not's, and just start appreciating and living the gospel. He also, in that same talk I think, says that we should "slow down, take a walk in nature, watch a sunset, and figure out what the restored gospel means to you personally and how it applies to your life." Those were good messages I thought. I'm not sure they are revelation -- but certainly they show wisdom.

OMG. How is this not positive?

The moderator says to move on. So I will just let it go.

Wow. hyperbole, gripe, grievance, jam.... Really. Okay. I didn't realize you folks were such a sensitive bunch. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

Hmmm? I guess I understand why you got "nasty" and rude at me there. Yes. Morcor ---- the mormon corridor, or the Wasatch front and Southern Idaho. General term used by mormons outside of Utah. No disrespect meant by it.