[Righteous Anger?]

I really like what JudoMinja (midget-ninja, no?) said. It really does sound like you let it build up too long, and when that happens people tend to let go. No matter how non-confrontational they are.

The little phrases he gave were also great suggestions/starting points. Another thing might be, if your employer provides some sort of counseling to employees, to take advantage of that and maybe blow off some steam to a third party that has no vested interest in anything other than your emotional health.

Lastly, if all things fail, you could quietly go to your manager (or assistant manager) and note the disturbances and say that they are adversely effecting your ability to work and possibly the ability of others to work as well.

[My thoughts this evening.]

We are digressing from the OP's intent. Let this not become a battle between LDS and exmormons.

We've had many exmormons as regular members of this site. In many ways they still have ties to the church and to the people. Many have been extremely respectful on this site and we've come to love many of them. Elphaba and Godless come quickly to mind. I love these two. Whether they believe as we do makes no difference to me. They are still good people and have much to offer this site.

This thread was not started to be a debate between us and them per se. What is said on another site like exmormon.org is what is said on exmormon.org. It's what is said on this site that concerns me. There needs to be a mutual respect between both. So far I've seen Asriel being respectful and attempting to explain the other side. As well as Rachelle.

So let's try and get back to the subject of the OP please.

You're right, sorry for the digression.

[My thoughts this evening.]

all of those folks follow a similar pattern.

First of all, I think you are greatly overstating the similarities of the stories. There are many similarities, yes. The feelings of betrayal, of guilt maybe, but it is mostly, from what I've seen (and I've spent years on that site) it is a feeling of pain. Think of it like a 12-step program, if it helps you. ExMormon.org is the first step in the 12-step program. It is a site known typically for being the place where people go to vent and rage (much like you would when you first break up with a girlfriend, or if you just got off an addiction). The posts will be very emotional, probably not super-thought out (though there are many posters who are well past this first step), and based more on feelings and emotion than anything else.

Now for the rest.

alot of times these are return missionary stories on there. i served a great wonderful mission and had a blast. my testimony is great.

And that's great, for you. Some people can have bad experiences. Should they give up so easily? Well, maybe not, but maybe that's why they go to church for "30 years and not believe it" like you said below:

they then consult quite often google seemingly unaware of how anti mormon the world is an confirm there doubts. they are confirmed though really cause they are looking for an excuse for their doubts to be true.

A lot of the people that I have talked to from there and personally started out by reading church-approved materials with their questions, most of the time trying to prove to themselves that their questions were unfounded and the church was true. Some even felt that these church materials showed them that the church was wrong. They could have misunderstood what the text was saying, but in their mind that's what it was.

why would you continue going to a church for 30 years and not believe it? the level of stupidity starts getting high from here on out.

I wouldn't call it stupidity, I'll address this more later.

now here is where it varies a little

depending if the person in question has a highly populated LDS family or if they are a loner. if they are a highly populated family they now struggle with the family betrayal issue. if they are a loner they now dont want to look back at their families that gave them the finger for joining in the first place.

And this is why it becomes so emotional. Religion is inherently emotional, simply because of what the implications are - especially in the christian beliefs and even moreso (in my opinion) in the LDS church.

now a few things happen.

1. if they are temple endowed as usually the case in these stories...the level of guilt these people express is downright alarming and staggering. seriously these people get torn up over having to get rid of the garments. they really get eaten alive. this is straight on the The Holy Ghost smacking them across the head for being idiots.

I've seen a range of emotions ranging from "torn up" to celebratory. As I said above, I think you are overstating the similarities. There are a lot of people who get torn up over the garments, but if you think about it, it's because it represents (what was) a huge part of their life. To use the relationship analogy from above, it's like when you finally get rid of everything that reminds you of your long-time ex. For some people it's a very difficult and emotional process.

2. they become conflicted on how to stop going to church....seriously they get torn up over this.

Again, range of emotions, but barring that a lot of the people I've talked to explained this as a support group thing, a family issue (if the family is mormon), and lastly a final admission of a lack of faith or total admittance of disbelief. It can symbolize the "final nail in the coffin," so to speak.

3. if the person is married or has kids....oh man hell is about to be unleashed.

Because, as with all relationships, the other person has to be considered. Especially kids, since they are developing and can be seriously affected by conflict, emotional, physical, or otherwise.

they are divorced usually over this random doubt they had one day. family members hate them.

So someone should stay in a church if they are married just so they don't become divorced or so family members don't hate them? That sounds more threatening to me than welcoming. The family members should accept their choice, even if they disagree, because this person is family. If you love someone you don't hate them just because they choose a different path.

and quite a few dont stop wearing temple garments for a good year or two after they become completely inactive. they then post on that website and act like completely angry bitter people and make it their life's mission to topple the church.

As I said above, but will restate: This is because it is a very emotional and (sometimes) painful process for those involved - for whatever reason. That website is definitely a "first step" website, and I'm sure that if you look elsewhere you will find that while former members may have their issues, they typically won't be so angry/emotional.

the end result is a bitter now smoker alcoholic with a mission to kill the church.

There is a difference between a drinker and an alcoholic, as well as someone who's emotional and someone who wants to kill the church (or harm it in any real way).

also ive never seen one happy post there. not one single happy person posting there. not one.

You sure you read as much as you say you have? Because most of the people I see on that site, other than the newcomers, seem pretty happy.

the irony here is of course some will then profess other christian religions as the one and completely overlook the flaws in those in religions and not even bother to fact check them. why? they can drink smoke and buy hookers with no punishment.(no offense intended to other religions just stating the frame of mind of the people on exmormon.org)

As above, I haven't done any surveys, but based on my years of experience of reading that site, most of the people (I'm going to say about 70%) tend to become extremely cautious about any religion and very nitpicky about any details. These are people that don't want to be "lied to" (in their minds, remember, they feel betrayed and lied to) anymore.

ive read at least 200 stories very close to exactly what i just described with minor differences. going there for a reliable source of information is crazy. the only thing ive gotten out of it is learning exactly how Satan sucker punches people. but if your testimony isnt completely rock solid going there does give me a sickening feeling. i can feel the evil radiating from it. strong testimony is required to view said site and not get crushed.

I will agree though, that going there probably isn't the best source of information. It is an emotional site that will be biased against the church - that is the nature of its residents. I will also say that if you go there with a very strong testimony you should be fine.

i think he is saying you cannot gain a testimony based solely intellect. intelligence has little to do with gaining a testimony. faith is more the requirement. intelligence can then enhance a testimony but to obtain it one needs first and foremost faith. no being a sheeple required.

Faith is an integral part of a testimony, yes, but if someone is questioning something about the church I'd say the best thing to give a little faith back would be through the use of intellect. We humans are logical people (albeit, also extremely emotional at times), and appeals to logic work very well, especially when an appeal to emotion (blind faith) has failed.

the flaw here is if one has the truth church being content just because other humans have found "happiness" is not good enough not when you have the truth and in the case of the OP he has the truth and is letting it slip by. so no i am not content with him just being "happy" when he could become eternally happy.

Alright, I can respect that.

[My thoughts this evening.]

Once again, thank you to anyone who read this. It could be I am just emo on my Bday, but I really would appreciate any thoughts. I post this in Gospel Discussion, because I am really questioning the idea of Moroni's promise. Am I wrong to want to be able to go back and completely reconfirm my testimony. Or does God expect me to soldier on with what he has given and rely solely on that. And furthermore, as a consequence of my inactivity not give me further light and truth and peace on what I would be doing if I were active...

CommanderSouth:

First of all, this is my first post so Hello! The reason for me finding this one so important to post on though is because it hits home for me. This "issue" as some might call it. I'll call it a journey. Where it takes you, nobody knows yet. You might end up being the most faithful member of the church, and hey, if that's what makes you happy then good. You might also become atheist, and again, if that's what makes you happy, good.

My sincerest advice: Don't get too emotional about any of this. It's all very disheartening - examining ones religious beliefs - and it is easy to make yourself miserable, or even sick. My sincerest advice is to choose wisely, choose well, do your research. If a church or a belief, or a belief against the LDS church is not true, there will be evidence. There will be enough evidence to prove one way or the other.

ExMo and other sites are filled with angry folks for various reasons, but, one thing that site and other sites designed to disprove the church have in common, is they are as destructive as pornography and will fuel your doubts.

Every site has its own share of angry people. I'd say that most of the people on ExMo.org are pretty upset though because they have just started their journey away from the church. It's a very emotional time, as some of them believe that everything they once "knew" was false. Imagine if you had discovered, just today, that the world was in fact flat and that the sun actually did revolve around us. It'd be intimidating, and a bit scary.

But, this does not mean that they cannot bring up valid arguments or points. Those sites aren't designed to disprove the church though, contrary to popular belief. They are sites where people discuss what they perceive to be the truth. If it is truth, there will be facts behind it, if it is false, then there won't be. Though yes, those sites will fuel doubts. That's what they do. Just like a Buddhist site is going to fuel thoughts about Buddhism.

You are trying to gain a witness through the intellect. All it is giving you is a headache and grief.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that it's better to be a sheeple and just follow something because someone said so instead of researching it and proving it for yourself by any means you deem necessary (whether it be prayer or reading)?

I think we are encouraged to find knowledge through study and prayer. I think we also have an obligation to think things through and determine whether be believe they are true or false before we seek for confirmation. I've always been on the side that if something is true it should be able to stand up to open and honest inquiry.

In short, you are on the right track actually. Study and think things through, ask for confirmation. Pay attention to sources.....both those on LDS as well as non-LDS sites. Make sure that what you are reading is in context and is verifiable (from both sides). I'll second Bytor's comment.....is it leading your to frustration or clarity and peace.

-RM

I hate to rip into everyone in this thread, so I will say that I liked the helpful vibe coming from the posters, just maybe not their arguments so much (so don't take it personally).

As for RM: I fully agree with what you said. Determine for yourself what is true and think things through. Don't be a sheeple for either side (anti- or pro-LDS). I'm sure that God wouldn't want someone to follow Him just to be part of a crowd.

And lastly, Commander: Whatever choice you make is yours and yours alone, and you know what? If it makes you happy, that should be good enough for every other human on the planet - lest they decide to start judging for God.