KingintheNorth

Lets try and put this into a metaphor so I can understand better. God is calling you. And the holy ghost is the phone. You need to pick it up and talk to God. The gift of the holy ghost is that upon confirmation you get a cell phone, so now you can call or talk to God from wherever. Which I think would make Jesus the unlimited minutes subscription. Needs some work.

Just inferring. Jesus is our spirit brother, so is Satan. I think I've heard that said. So why not the holy ghost?

What makes someone member of the Godhead? And what is a Godhead anyway?

So I guess, the holy ghost is another spirit, just like us before we had bodies. But why was the holy ghost selected as the main guy to communicate with mortals? Why can't other spirits give gifts? What makes the holy ghost different?

I don't get it, about the olive tree?

I still have a lot of reservations about this sect. When did you know without a doubt that the church was true? Was it some spiritual experience? When you had a prayer answered? When you read some history?

While I admit, I cant speak to the peculiarities of any religion, I do believe there is a God. Some sort of divine creator. I see a beautiful complex world working in perfect harmony. Think of the complexity of anything, such as the physical and chemical act of breathing. Fresh air goes in, bad air comes out, and it keeps us alive. God has a lot to answer for over 2000 years? But thats 2000 years of sunrises, rainbows, and the innumerable miracles that make up daily life. Its a privilege just to be alive. And I thank whoever made the world for that every day. Amen.

Thats a good point. and certainly jesus never had any children either. I wonder what the total amount of children born from plural marriages is. Church statisticians get on it!

I guess the ultimate question is what is the purpose of plural marriage on earth. For marriage one could say its to build strong families and faithful children. But then Joseph smith never had any children in the plural marriages. So the strengthening families and go forth and multiply angles are not too convincing. Perhaps each of these women had children from a previous marriage, and that's the reason. I'm not sure.

You guys are making too much of their skin color. One word in a million and suddenly it's evidence for intermixing with paleo Indians. Yada yada yada. Now the question of is skin color a curse is a good question with deep theological ramifications, and I'm happy to say there is no basis to say skin is a curse. But trying to infer their skin color is silly and pointless.

This thread has raised more issues than answers. With the black issue, it was pretty evident that the scriptures were against it from the beginning, and that everything is all better now. But with this, there is no clear doctrine or explanation. JS kept various marriages secret, its not clear why he got married at all. Several of the marriages were with married women. The easiest explanation is that he made up the doctrine simply to rationalize his lustful behavior. There just isn't enough information about his wives either. You'd think we be able to get some first hand accounts of the practice, of what reasons JS gave them. After all if he said "I want to marry you because you don't have a husband, and God has revealed that having a husband is necessary for exaltation." But then we see evidence that he married married women.

James, that was great thank you. Do you just have these saved somewhere or did you look it up? I heard it explained as a fullness of joy before, but I didn't know what it meant. This is much clearer.

Seems odd to order something and then take it away again. Where did this idea come from? How did Joseph Smith explain it? How did his wives explain it?

I'm looking into the church right now. But I have no intention of dumping my beautiful girlfriend of two years. And all though she isn't a believer she is supportive of my beliefs. How would this situation be received by the members of the church?

If I'm not mistaken, according to mormon scriptures God has a physical body. Why? And why do we need to have bodies? The doctrine that our mortal lives are for learning makes sense to me, but that our mortal lives are also for the opportunity to gain a material body doesnt make much sense.

Wow that was a great video! There really is no such curse of blackness in the scripture! Why doesn't everyone know about these videos? Its perfect. If there are people lurking here, who had the same thoughts that I had, you must watch that video. I feel so bad that I judged before I knew the truth.

That Wikipedia is pretty informative "African Americans accounted for 9% of all converts in the United States." Thats pretty close to the percentage of the population of african americans. Ideally I'd like to see a colorless world where race doesn't matter. When God changed the Lamanites skin black, why is it a curse? Its not a curse to be black surely. Was something else going on here?

Well 35 years is plenty of time to change. Does anyone have any statistics about Blacks in the church now? Do they have proportional representation in the leadership?

You know I'm willing to pray, and give it a shot. I like the church and its morals. But I'd feel so much better having a spiritual experience about it. But even as I pray, in the back of my mind I'm thinking "oh this will never work" or "Jesus Christ probably doesn't exist" just small whispers like that. Again its a catch 22.

I've read something like You need to have faith in God and Jesus to have your prayers recieved. But I have little to none. It seems like a Catch 22. I need faith to pray, but I can't pray without faith.

The only way to find out if a restaurant has good food is to eat there, but you can ask your friends how it was before you go so you know exactly how much it will cost and what their best dishes are.

Thanks for all your responses on this forum so far. Its really been enlightening. I'm about finished 1 Nephi, pretty interesting. I have a more philosophical question this time, I hope you'll oblige me. There are many people throughout history and even currently who don't know about Jesus, either because they don't care about religion, or have a different religion. And Mormons, which claim to be the true church, only have 14 million members. So clearly if God loves all his children, then he would find a way to reach the people in the world who are Buddhists, muslims, or other. Is there any scripture or doctrine or talk which explains this? I hope that makes sense. These thoughts probably bother me more than any other. I hope I was clear.

This whole period seems complicated. Is anyone here black, or have black friends in the Church? What are your/their opinions on the church nowadays and looking at it in history?

Racism is evil. I think everyone agrees with that now. So do you think the ban on blacks was racist? If so, does that make the church evil? How could it persist for so long if not for racist doctrine?

The missionaries I'm chatting with always ask me to pray. I admit, I don't find it very appealing. I've always been a man of action, and my mantra has been "God helps those who help themselves." Perhaps you could share with me a time where you prayed to God and got results? Thank you.