Kirkko

I've heard this is the case in the end, but how can that be? I, like many others, have had to face some things that are daunting challenges and that may persist until I die. I struggle to overcome, improve, forgive, forget, etc; but my struggles never go away and I don't feel peace or at least what I recognize as peace. How will things be made right when I know what has happened in my life, I've struggled with it and probably will remember it after I die, how is it fixed? I'm talking about dealing with abuse, disappointments, especially from those who are supposed to be your support, deep hurt and pain that seems unbearable. I guess I don't have enough faith at this point because I haven't experienced the peace I've heard or seen so many people reference.

I've heard people say Satan is known as the adversary and is just that, the wrong decisions or choices we can make against Gods will, but do you believe Satan is an actual being who could show up as a spirit and that he controls evil spirit or is Satan a metaphor for our fallen state or something different? I know that it has been said that one of Satans tricks is to convince people that he doesn't exist; that's not what I'm asking, I think he exists but is he a real spirit ie in the temple or a metaphor or something else? I'm curious as to what people think.

I, like everyone else, have my own weaknesses/struggles that I constantly worry will keep me from the Celestial Kingdom and my family. For me it is the inability to forgive three people. I pray, study, try to forget, go to the temple, etc. I've gone to counseling met with bishops everything I can think of, yet, when I am reminded of these people, I still get the same sick and angry feelings. At this point, I feel like I'm losing hope because I can't not only do it by myself, I seem to be struggling even when I try to turn to the Savior and ask for relief. I really don't want to be separated from my family for eternity and I hate how I feel, but it's kind of automatic and I really don't feel in control of that aspect. I get sad because I don't want to be punished for feeling bad/angry at other peoples actions, but that's what will happen if I don't get over it. I know many will say just let it go, get over it, accept it and move on; but for me that has been much easier said than done. How have you all come to terms with things like this and do you worry that you'll struggle with it forever and deprive yourself of the Celestial Kingdom? Do you worry you'll have to see certain people forever? How have you found peace?

If Heavenly Father is all powerful why can't he just forgive the way I do when my kids mess up? They make a mistake, get punished/chastised and we move on; it doesn't require a blood sacrifice for me to do that. Why is God constrained by justice, when He is all powerful? Why does He have rules, when He makes the rules? I know the Fall brought sin and death which keeps us from God, but if it is necessary for us to go through this fallen life, why does God require the Atonement to satisfy justice and allow mercy? Again, why is He constrained? Is it self imposed? Is it the blueprint of earths? I'm just looking for some thoughts on this subject. Thanks

What does everyone believe life will be like there? Is there anything out there where it is described in much detail? Will our minds be at peace? What kind of things will be enjoyable to us?

I'm an insecure person. My wife and I had a big talk. I realize I've been emotionally abusing her for many years because of her past. I have a competition going on in my mind between her past and me; and I feel like I'll always lose. She explained a lot of what was going on with her at those times in her life. She explained how as a teenage girl she loved those guys as much as she could, especially her high school love, and wanted to show them, yet faced the problem of showing them was bad. Her compromise was no intercourse, but everything else was fair game. She did not have one-night stands or casual sex, to her these were meaningful relationships that were progressing. She first had sex after a lot if pressure and she finally gave up on trying to say no. From there she gave in to one other guy. She told me her willpower has always been weak, but also that she knew what she did was bad, but did not feel bad because she did it out if love. She went back to guys who had cheated on her sexually multiple times and even said at one point she was going to choose one guy over God and her testimony. She told me after we were engaged her past boyfriends called and asked what she was thinking and that she had a chance to leave me but didn't. I guess my real problem is how do I get over this feeling of loss and betrayal. She has told me there are things she has done more with them than with me sexually and it makes me sad. I can't put a finger on exactly why it bothers me so much. I think it's jealousy, sadness that she put herself in those situations, anger because I don't get her all to myself sexually. I don't know. I'm not sure about the atonement right now and God's love for me as an individual. I'm not sure Jesus understands my feelings, I'm not sure I can find true peace; yes I can not think about things, but they come back and there is still deep pain there. The ironic thing is, I seved a mission and taught people these things that I'm not sure about. I have a belief overall that the church is true, the atonement is real , etc, but not that personal deep conviction I feel I need to get me through this because in the end, if the atonement is real that is the only hope I have, otherwise I've gone crazy over things that don't matter, meaning, the law of chastity and virtue aren't important. I'm kind of venting right now because I don't want this to be an issue, but I'm not sure I'm capable of overcoming it and loving my wife the way she deserves. I know I'm the problem, but if anyone has had truly deep despair, how did you overcome it? What changed your heart and how did it happen in an individual way? I pray, read scriptures, go to church; I'm temple worthy though the prayer circle is difficult for me as are some if the teachings about chastity. I just need that conviction I hear so many other people have. Please help.

Thank you to all who have given their insights. I do feel the need to defend myself a bit though. I did not propose and get married thinking that would be the "cure-all". I knew going in as did she that I would still struggle with what I knew at the time, but as they say "time heals all wounds" and I had the hope that over time I would get over it. I did not think marriage would magically make evrything go away and I'll admit, the first year was really difficult for both of us. As for how much to know or not to know; we had "the talk" where we covered our pasts or at least what she wanted to share, I had my issues, but they were resolving or at least I felt like they were. My point is, if that is all she wanted me to know then she should have made completely sure nothing else later would come out, especially if it was something like sleeping with or having oral relations with other guys. I feel like she should have been completely upfront while we dated in order for me to make a completely informed decision or she should have shared nothing at all while we dated and gotten rid of evidence of what she didn't want me to know. She chose to share some things, but did not get rid of the evidence of other things she did not share. I will admit that reading the journal was stupid and I learned things I didn't want to know and I regret doing it, but I do feel she has some responsibility in continuing to have something like that, which contains damaging things/materials. That is where I liken it to someone being addicted to porn and keeping the magazines or favorite websites on the computer despite knowing what their spouse would say/do if they found them. I do not feel she still loves those guys, though she has told me she will always love them for being sher first loves; but I do feel like she loved them with more passion and thought about them first when it comes to sexual things more than she does me. Like, I've written before, she was willing to do whatever to took to keep these guys, even giving up on religion and her morals. I'm not demanding this and that in the bedroom, but if she at least acted like she liked being with me intimately and tried harder, it would make a world of difference. I'm actually intimidated to try and make moves on my wife because of how often she rejects me. She says it's not me it's her and where she is at at this time of her life, but it would be nice to feel like I am worth making an effort for. I feel like she used up almost all of her sexuality with other people and that saddens me a lot. Intimacy for me has been difficult. There are things that she liked/didn't like, but she found these things out with other partners. Everything I know has been with her. Everything I like, I learned with her. I've been seeing a counselor, but I stopped with this one because she was not LDS and had me doing thought journals where I felt like I was focusing and thinking about my thoughts and feelings too much, even more than I normally do! We are now in the process of working through LDS Family Services both individually and as a couple. We've only had the "get to know you individually" meetings. Hopefully this helps us out. I am not a bad guy. I am just heart-broken.

Yes, when I found the journal I read it. So, a litle background. My wife and I started dating and she told me she wasn't a virgin as well as having done some other stuff with one guy and had another boyfriend right after this. I had a hard time with it, especially because she was in the process of Church discipline stuff. I met her family and some friends, one of which was an old boyfriend, came over and were jerks to me and quite rude, but she didn't ask them to leave though the situation was uncomfortable. I asked my bishop and parents what to do because I was having such a hard time with the sexual past and through counsel and prayer I decided to propose hoping eventually my problem would go away. In the planning the marriage she wanted to these guys and we had some major arguments over it because I didn't think past boyfirends/lovers should be at our wedding. We got married and those guys didn't show up. Over time it got better and we have a good marriage, yet every so often things would come up in our lives about this guy. For example, he was going to be at a wedding reception for one of my wife's friends and my wife wanted to go alone. I was uncomfortable with that and said I wanted to go too. Apparently because I ended up going I ruined the reception for her because she was uncomfortable. This guy ended up moving in with that couple as a roommate and my wife has constant contact with her friend (the girl), but never told me that guy was living there and that they likely spoke. A few years later, she came out and told me she had had another boyfriend who had forced himself on her once and took her virginity and because of how down she was she went to the boyfriend I knew about and had the relationship I knew about. A few years later, I found the journal while cleaning our closet. I read it and found out a lot more about her past. She had other boyfriends where the relationship caused her to be disfellowshipped multilpe times. The guy who assaulted her really didn't, she was with him multiple times and consented to it. Finally, the journal contains information about the guy I knew about originally and how they had been, "not having sex, but figuring out other ways around it". Needless to say, all of this new information has broken my heart and I am insecure about our relationship. Finally, one of her friends visited recently and proceeded to share a story of my wife with her boyfriend at a waterpark making out with specific details. I felt like my wife should have stopped the conversation for me. I wonder if her love for me is as much as for them, considering she went out of her way to be with them. I wonder if she does the same things with me that she did with them and if not, why not? I feel like she should have told me everything and been up front. I was completely honest, holding nothing back with her. I have guiven her my trust and trusted that what she told me when we were dating was the complete truth. I love her and we have three great kids, but I do question er committment to me. It seems like anytime there is an issue with this I am the bad guy. I don't think it's too much to ask not to have communication with past lover/boyfriends and to tell me the truth. I kow I may be judgmental, but I also expect her to help me out too. I feel like keeping the journal with all of its pictures and references to how much she loves these guys is a way she is withholding her complete committment to me. I feel like she defends them any time something comes up. I guess my question really is shouldn't your spouse be number one? Do you think about what your spouse/significant other will feel in different situations? I don't feel like she does that for me and it makes me question her feelings for me. I know I sound selfish and it probably is, but I need to have that security from her that i don't feel right now.

I just want to know if I'm crazy. My wife has a journal that contains a lot of details about past relationships before me, most of which i knew nothing about, and she keeps this journal in our closet. These relationships would not be considered temple worthy relationships and the details reflect this. First, I feel like part of her repentance would be to get rid of something like this, similar to someone getting cigarettes or coffee out of their house; second, I feel like out of respect and love for me, knowing it would cause terrible heartache for me if i ever found it and read it, that she would want it gone; finally, that to protect our children from this information, she would want it gone. Kids snoop! I've asked her to get rid of it, but she says she keeps it to remind her of how she changed, but couldn't she just know that in her mind. Also, I really worry about her true feelings for me now because she was friends with some of her previous love interests on Facebook. Am I crazy for being uncomfortable and feeling hurt that she would keep something like this around? I feel like it is similar to someone addicted to porn keeping their magazines or websites around.

Can you partake of the water if you miss the bread? Do you always do everything with the right hand?

My question is how do you do this? How do you let go and not allow it to affect you anymore? I feel like I've been trying and will make progress only to regress to the same feelings I had before.

I have realized over the past few months that I never really learned to forgive. I'm not talking about little things like getting cut off in traffic, but things that really affect me. I always thought I could forgive and get over things, but I've realized there are a couple of things in my life that happened in the past that I haven't completely gotten over. If I ever think about one of these issues negative feelings come into my heart and mind, which tells me I haven't completely forgiven. At times I get sick to my stomach about it. How do you forgive and make it so issues don't bother you if they come up?

I think that there will be those emotions, but where do the negative ones/ sorrows come from? God cried because of wickedness, if there is no Satan, where will the sorrow, etc. come from? Also, if we remember our lives, even the bad stuff, will it still affect us similarly i.e. a wayward child and the sorrow if they never return? Do you all believe the Atonement gets us through trials/ sorrow by giving an eternal perspective that one day it will be gone or there will be relief so you're not sad anymore? Why did Christ descend below all things besides to gain experiences/ knowledge concerning everyone's trials, sorrows, etc? On a different note, is there a difference between remembering not and forgetting?

Ive been thinking and my mind can't grasp the thought that there will be no evil there. I know Satan will be bound, but to have no worries, negativity, etc. is awesome, but difficult to comprehend. What will happen to our minds and will we remember the bad stuff from this earthly time? If we do, what will we feel? I'm not sure I've read much about this. Does anyone have any thoughts? Does Satan still have influence in the spirit world right now? I know some spirits reject the work done on their behalf in the temple; is that because of temptation/ Satan or is it their clear mind saying no, without any influence from Satan?

I agree with what everyone has said. I know I need to trust in the Atonement and have faith that, in the end, if I make it, heaven really will be heaven and there will be true peace. I do hope there won't be any awkwardness though.

This is impressive. How were you able to get to that point? I think I may be over things and they come up again or I am reminded in some way and I desire justice and I get angry. I know I have a ways to go, but I would like to genuinely be able to say what you put in your above post.

I don't think forgiving implies forgetting and that is my question/concern. If someone is abusing me and I am able to forgive and get past it, I will still know it happened and more than likely not seek that person out. To put it blatantly, if you were raped, would you want to spend eternity with that person? I know the answer is forgive and get over it, but it is easier said than done. I think it would be uncomfortable, but I only have an earthly perspective. I do like the reply about not remembering the glory of being a son/daughter of God, that helps with perspective.

I've been thinking about what it may be like in the hereafter if there is someone who has wronged you in this life in a way that though you can forgive them, you would rather not be around them or associate with them. Especially if it is something serious like sexual abuse, etc. I would think it would be uncomfortable in heaven if someone who had wronged me deeply was there too and we were supposed to associate with them. Let me know what you think.

Thank you for this. It sounds like you and I are in very similar situations. If you don't mind me asking, did you find a counselor through the Church or outside the Church? If you were on meds what were/are you on? Right now I see someone who is not a member and I think it is difficult for her to understand where I am coming from. I take Prozac and Wellbutrin, but I wonder if the effects are wearing off. For me, I like to think I have forgiven her and the other guys, but, like you said, the thoughts become obsessive and I literally picture my wife with other guys. It is heartbreaking, first, because I don't know her as that girl and second, it's not something that is pleasant to have go through my mind. I struggled with this when we were dating and even spoke to my bishop. I love her and loved her then and I didn't want to lose her because I was too weak/prideful etc. to forgive and get over her past. I know she loves me because she wouldn't still be with me, but I really do worry that she may compare me with them and wonder whether life would be better with them rather than me.

Thank you for this. I know she loves me and I'm sure it's my low self-esteem that is causing me trouble. It's so much easier said than done, at least for me, to not wonder whether I'm being compared to them, whether she regrets marrying me. I worry that despite trying to keep images out of my mind and at times feeling overwhelmed I will be held accountable for not forgiving. It's just tough for me to know she has been with other people in ways that, according to the Church, are reseved for marriage.

1998-2000. Presidents Thompson and Johnson. I got to the country in Nov '98 and left Oct '00.

Thanks! I have been trying what you mentioned and I feel forgotten. It just never goes away for me. I did serve in Finland.

Hello, I've lurked on here but have been afraid to post. I have been married 11 years and have three kids. Before I met my wife she was in two relationships where she was sexually active in multiple ways. She told me about one of them while dating and the other one came out a few years later. I have always had a hard time with it. She was in the process of repenting when we met and we were married in the temple. The problems is I always wonder if she will one day leave me and choose that kind of lifestyle again. I also get vivid images in my mind of her with other people sexually. I am and have been in counseling and I have struggled with depression because of this since I found out. I know I'll get responses like forgive her, move on, but for me it is much easier said than done. My testimony has been shaken because I have tried earnestly to forgive, forget, move on, etc., but there is always a constant "sickness to my stomach". I don't believe I will ever be truly happy because this haunts me. I have even been suicidal at times. I wonder what it will be like in the afterlife if those she was with are there. I have hoped at times that they don't find the gospel so they don't haunt me in the afterlife. I wonder if this is something I'll have to deal with for eternity. I have always professed a belief in the atonement, for me this has been the hardest challenge of my life, and has really made me question if God does love and know me. I did not know before I met her that I would have such a problem with it. I know I'm not perfect and I think it's remarkable she has stuck around considering how this affects me. I'm just wondering how people forget and make it so these kinds of things don't bother them anymore. I go a day or two with little to no thought on the subject and then out of the blue thoughts enter my mind and really devastate me. My thought process is this: I wasn't good enough to wait for, those other guys offered her something more than I can give because she was willing to forsake what she believed to be with them and then, even though she felt bad she continued to go back to the first and then the next. I worry that I was just the convenient returned missionary. I don't feel like she is mine, I have a hard time knowing she was held, kissed, etc in what I consider to be the most intimate way of showing love. When she is "not in the mood" I take it very personal and get depressed because I don't feel like I'm good at it or attractive enough, like those other guys who got what they wanted. I know my way of thinking is wrong and from an outsider's perspective I'm making a big deal of something that happened years ago, but I really am heartbroken and I worry this will prevent me from experiencing true joy. So, again, if anyone has any advice please let me know. Thanks