Catlick

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Everything posted by Catlick

  1. Thanks for the replies, MormonGator and The Folk Prophet. Yes, 'intellectualism' is vague--what I mean is scholarship, a more intellectual approach to the gospel (rather than just feelings), a deeper study of church history, and most importantly, discussion among church members. And I hope I don't sound like an academic snob--I can see that the word "intellectualism" can smack of that. But I'm a nerd at heart, and I love researching, I love talking to others, and I'm a searcher. I can't help it, it's in my nature. Which is why I identify so much with the things that Joanna Brooks says--I've heard her podcasts and I think it's sad and a bit creepy that she has to parse her words and watch what she says for fear of the church authorities coming down on her. These are just my impressions as an outsider, and I truly want to reconcile this reluctance on my part with so much good and truth that I've learned from the church so far.
  2. That makes sense. I can see why denying church beliefs or working against them would get someone kicked out. I guess I'm just used to more theological scholarship being available for discussion in my church, and we typically have study groups and a vocal group of people who approach the Bible and Catholic teachings with a variety of perspectives and personal experiences. So it is taking me some getting used to more of a 'hive mind' approach. Something to think about. Thanks, Vort.
  3. Hello all! I've posted here a few times about my journey possibly converting from Catholicism to LDS. I've been studying with the missionaries, attending church and ward events, and praying. A lot. I still have many roadblocks to baptism, but one issue I'm worried about is a seeming reluctance to intellectual query within the church. As a Catholic, we are encouraged to dig, to challenge, to seek answers, and faith is a lifelong process. I know this is an old quote, but I recently read that BoydPacker stated that "the three greatest threats to the church were homosexuals, feminists and intellectuals." Ouch. So there it is. It might be telling to say that one of my favorite public Mormons is Joanna Brooks. I can't find anything by her held by Deseret Book, and I wonder if that says something? In your experience, is this reluctance to admit intellectualism among ward members typical? Do you see it changing anytime soon? While I love so much about the LDS church, this scares me a little. There are so many who have been excommunicated for their thoughts and open speech that it seems a bit draconian to me. So I'm hesitating furthering any talk of baptism with the missionaries until I feel that new voices and perspectives are welcome.
  4. One more thing I'd like to mention, in case any other newbies are thinking along the same lines. My biggest struggle is with the literalism of religious historical narrative. While I get so much out of reading my BoM and tuning into LDS media, I still have a hard time with Joseph Smith. The lack of even a shred of archaeological evidence in either the US or MesoAmerica, the KJV matching mistakes between Smith's Bible and the BoM, the Book of Abraham turning out to be falsley 'translated,' It's pretty damning evidence, and even Richard Lyman Bushman cannot explain these things away in his scholarly biography on Smith. And yet...I'm feeling this pull. It is so hard to have my head (which says Smith made up his own religion) and my heart (which agrees with so many of the tenets such as the premortal existence) at odds. In other words--if these things aren't true, why do I still have a testimony??? I'll keep praying, keep reading counter-evidence, and keep asking questions. I really, really, really want to believe.
  5. I've been struggling with the no coffee doctrine myself. I ended up ordering some "herbal coffee" from Amazon called Teechino, and it is so good! It is nutty, with a rich flavor that goes great with milk. It's made with chicory and other herbs and has no caffeine. I was enjoying it when I realized that the only thing missing was the caffeine, and that is was still a "hot drink," and did I just skirt the law? Is herbal tea and fake coffee just a loophole for folks like me who need a substitute if we're going to give up the real thing? What essentially happens is that I have a new hot drink to enjoy in the morning. The fact that its not technically coffee seems arbitrary. That is what causes my confusion. The original WoW mentions "hot drinks," which I consider pretty vague. Does that mean that iced coffee or iced tea is fine? Was it referring to caffeine, or to the rowdy crowds' particular tastes that got tobacco and alcohol banned in the Church in the first place? How essential is not drinking coffee to my salvation? It seems so trivial, and I struggle with it.
  6. I've spent the last few days reading and re-reading your responses, thank you all so much for taking the time to respond the way you did. I am going to try living the WoW and see how my life changes, and possibly reach out to my Dad when I feel the conversation would be at a good time. I am allowing these fears to transform into doubts, and that is where I start reconsidering. I'm still meeting with the missionaries, still reading (and loving) my Book of Mormon. When I stop reading my BoM, and I start reading things that cast Joseph Smith in a bad light or involve the lack of archaeological evidence for LDS beliefs, I lose what little testimony I have. When I read my BoM, listen to General Conference talks, and spend time with my Mormon friends, I feel the stirring of the spirit unlike anything else. It really helps to hear from you, anatess, and your experience in a totally Catholic family. I'm not Filipina, but I'm Mexican American, and we have similar values and connection to Catholicism. I really enjoy reading your posts because I can relate and that gives me strength. askandanswer, I went right to the passage that you mentioned, and highlighted it. That was very helpful, thank you.
  7. David13, sometimes I think you are right. Why am I even considering this major change? I don't really know, I just feel compelled. Jane_Doe, thank you soooo much! I have a feeling I'll be reading and re-reading your words. So much to consider, and I am praying so much these day's for guidance by the Holy Ghost and just hoping that Christ can remove these obstacles, or at least make them seem less daunting.
  8. Hello everyone! I am a born-and-raised Catholic but was introduced to the LDS church by some friends about a year ago. I've been studying the Book of Mormon, listening to General Conference talks, as well as Mormon podcasts and I love it all. I've met several times with the missionaries and ward members and they are encouraging me to set a baptism date for a few weeks from now. I had to tell them no, because although my heart tells me that that the Church is true, there are lots of fears that I have that hold me back. It's come down to a heart-vs-head thing. Here are my fears: -That I'm too much of a free spirit to conform to the larger church culture. While I'm not a fan of rated R movies and I don't use salty language (except when I stub my toe), I still wonder if I'll fit in to the wholesome Mormons that I know! Do I need to stop listening to rock music and watching Dateline Mysteries due to their violence? -I fear that I'll get homesick for my Catholic heritage. It's all I've ever known, and I get homesick for things regularly. I'm a nostaligic type! Can I still use my rosary to pray when so moved? Or would I have to shut that part of myself off? -I worry how my friends and family will react. My devoutly Catholic father will not be happy. Will it make social occasions with my friends awkward when I refuse a cold beer or a tea party invitation? -What if I just can't conform to the WoW? I looooove my morning coffee. What if I have a sleepless night and have to function the next morning with my kids and end up caving to a hot mug of coffee? -I also worry about what callings I would recieve. I'm so busy as it is--would extra volunteer hours take me away from my family? As it is, I'm working on a graduate degree, volunteering tons of hours at my sons' school, on the parent board, and volunteering in the school library. I worry that callings would be an even heavier burden that I can bear, and I like the fact that I can choose what to participate in at my Catholic church (I also volunteer there, but things of my own choosing that work with my schedule). Ack! That's a lot, I know! Thanks for reading all of that! I'm just straddling a fine line between two totally different churches and I just don't know what to do. I'm not totally sure that the BoM is true, but it feels right and I adore the way the LDS church functions on a spiritual level. I don't want to waste any more of the missionaries' time if I'm going to be so slow in making a decision. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
  9. That is so helpful to know, anatess! Thank you.
  10. Hello all! I am currently investigating the church and am on the fence over several issues. One of the things I think about is tithing. My situation is this: While I am considering conversion, my husband is and has always been agnostic and would not be joining me. I haven't yet told him about tithing, and although he is very supportive of my decisions, I don't know what he'll say. I am a stay at home mom so have no income of my own, and I don't know that he'll feel the same way that I do about tithing. Are there any interreligious marriages that you've heard of in which the husband (also the breadwinner) refuses to pay tithing to a church to which he doesn't belong? I'm just anticipating the worst case scenario here--for all I know, he'll be okay with it.
  11. Okay, I'm watching the Mormonchallenges.org videos. Very interesting and so relevant to my own questions. I can't stop watching. However, I'm a grad student and am in the middle of midterms--NOT helpful to be introduced to these videos right now! Thanks a lot, yjacket!
  12. Traveler, you're blowing my mind!!! Such interesting stuff, and so much to delve into. I will definitely be reading both the books of Abraham and Enoch, thanks for that advice. There reallly is so much that we don't understand and that has it's basis in spiritual realities that would likely blow most peoples' socks off. Good stuff, this.
  13. Vort, good point! I'll have to look into that. I thought it was generally accepted that the fragments found were from Joseph's collection and were identified as being the Book of Abraham originals.
  14. Jane_Doe, you too huh? :) I started in the Humanities department and now I'm a librarian. I took classes in Egyptology/hieroglyphics and museum studies/archives. LOVE all of it!
  15. Interesting, estradling75. Thanks for reframing the Book of Abraham issue. And again, I come back to the "ye shall know them by their fruits," and feel that these are small things compared to the greater picture of what our Heavenly Father wants from us.
  16. Vort, I'm just going by several sources that quoted modern Egyptologists that identified the papyrus found in 1966 as a common funerary document, having nothing to do with Abraham or his time. From lds.org: "None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" I am in academia and I do believe an Egyptologist when he or she looks at a document and says "Nope, that's not what it says. This is what it says." So I'm stuck on this one. I really, really want to believe that everything Joseph translated was a true translation, but the papyri just don't stand up to the scholarship. Today, we understand ancient Egyptian, while no one did in Joseph's time.
  17. Ok, good to know, Jane_Doe! I personally never drink soda, as I think its even worse for us than coffee or tea (I don't actually think either of those are bad for you, but I think the dependence is what gets in the way of life sometimes).
  18. Thanks, Just_a_Guy, that is very helpful! I'm pondering all of this for the first time, I appreciate your patience! ;p I also used to hear that soda was a no-no, but I do see Mormon friends drinking Coke or Pepsi sometimes. Is that acceptable? It seems to me that the caffeine would make it prohibited?
  19. Traveler, it is so good to hear that you are a 'science type' like my husband. Him and I make a good team, as I make emotional decisions while he is very rational. We keep one another balanced! We've talked about religion, and while he has no faith tradition, he has a huge respect for our LDS friends and those he had as childhood friends. He is very supportive of any volunteer work I do with the LDS community and really likes the fact that our kids' best friends are Mormon. In other words, he has only good things to say about your faith and community. However, he struggles with belief in God at all, let alone a whole doctrinal faith, so it would be a miracle to me if he became involved! But we shall see!
  20. Hi there! I just introduced myself in the Intro forum as a lifelong Catholic who is investigating the LDS church after meeting some great LDS friends over the years as well as many of their doctrines really resonating with me. However, I'm also a rational person and like to know that if I throw my lot in with a certain faith tradition, that that faith is true. So here goes... First of all, where does the Word of Wisdom come from? In the Catholic church, there are a lot of rules that come from "tradition," rather than Biblical-based mandates (this is where we base our reverence for the saints, Mary, praying the rosary, etc). Is it a similar case in the LDS church, or is the WoW from Biblical scripture? To be honest, I have a hard time imagining giving up my morning coffee and the occasional wine tasting trip with friends if I don't know that there is a divine purpose. Secondly, I'm stuck on the Book of Abraham. As it has been disproved by Egyptologists, is it considered an essential belief? What is the LDS church's official stance on that issue? I don't know if I think that it totally disproves everything Joseph claimed to translate, as he was a human being. He may have gotten ahead of himself and tried translating something that wasn't divinely required of him to translate (unlike the BoM). Maybe he tried to do it on his own to see if he still had "the power" and that is just proof of his ultimate humanity. Or that this was actually satan's attempt to throw a wrench into things and discredit the faith for future believers, who knows? Despite all of these things (and there are more doctrinal things that make me wonder), I do believe strongly in the scripture quote of "Ye shall know them by their fruits," and I do believe that the Mormons that I have met or overheard are absolutely living lives inspired by the Holy Spirit and in my opinion, they're doing a better job of it than other Christian denominations. But that's just my opinion!
  21. Thank you all so much for the warm welcome. Jane, your advice on baby steps and simply just reading the scriptures is so very helpful to hear. It is an overwhelming prospect, but if it is the direction that God wants me to take, I'm sure each step will happen more and more easily. Capitalist_Oinker (LOL), I really appreciate your words. So much to think about. And yes, I debate whether or not the LDS is true, or whether I'm better off staying Catholic. It helps so much to hear other testimonies and personal experiences. I will get a copy of the Book of Mormon and pray on it.
  22. Wow, Catholic here too and have lots of questions! :) Looking forward to getting to know people here!
  23. Hi everyone, I am a born and raised Catholic who has spent most of my life questioning my faith. Now I am a mother of two, and have moved to a town with a small but active LDS community, some of whom I've become friends with. Two things speak to me: How refreshing it is to see the way they live their faith every moment of every day, and that there are some doctrinal issues that I've alway held and am surprised to see held by the LDS faith (preexistence of the soul, a letting go of the Trinity doctrine, a focus on good works rather than the sola scriptura model, etc). These things all speak to me, and I have been fascinated with the LDS faith but have not yet stepped up to asking my friends if I can join them sometime. I have asked them a lot of questions, and I've attended social events, but I still haven't actually been to an LDS Sunday service. I'm not sure where to go from here. Joining the church seems to be a HUGE committment as far as tithing (my husband is agnostic and completely supportive of whereever I land religious-wise), volunteer work, children and adult faith formation classes, etc. I just don't know if I'm ready to invest, and I'm still half-heartedly attending my Catholic church. I'm feeling so torn, so lonely, so lost in my search for the truth. Any advice?