FiestySoprano

It is not at all about telling someone to shut-up, or being rude, or disrespectful of "opinions". In this matter what has been said is not even opinions, but rather violations of facts---- it is flat out wrong and damaging to others. In all of this it has not been a matter of feeling a need to validate myself, or protect myself..... or play the " who is right game" with others. Everything I have said, including sharing my personal details..... has not been about me, or trying to prove something to the men who are saying a victim is in some way to blame. I fully understand those people likely will not change their view, and want to even believe it is true, and see women to blame in some form. I understand that sometimes it makes people feel better about crimes if they can blame it on the victim, and even make them believe it is true ...typically because they do not want to deal with, or help them through their pain---if they can blame it on the person, then they don't have to support them. Telling someone they are in some way at blame helps to silence them, and make them feel bad for "complaining", and thus removes their responsibility to otherwise help and support (because most people don't seek support for something they themselves did wrong). I did not share my details because I am defending myself. I am 100 percent solid at this point in knowing that I was not to blame, and that how others treated me was wrong. However, other victims are not. I have been saying these things for the other survivors who stumble upon, and see this thread. They are who matter most. I don't want them to see people pushing that victims are to blame, and seeing a survivor cow down to that. I want them to see and hear the truth, and that they are NOT to blame, nor should they listen to anyone who clearly does not understand, or want to understand. One of the best tools in healing is seeing others who have overcome, and are able to speak, and stand-up. That is the very reason why we admire survivors like Elizabeth Smart. It is why I speak-up. None of this has been about me, it is about the others who could be harmed by reading what those who are ignorant have stated.

Sadly, I think many men only would understand if they themselves were abused when they were young and vulnerable to those bigger than them.......or had to watch female family members be abused. Bad people take advantage of vulnerability ( be it size, age, gender, out-numbering, or using a weapon).

No, you are the one that does not understand. You are equating a bag you left out, and visible.......to sexual assault being someone's fault for somehow being visible. The whole point I have tried to express is..... a woman cannot hide that she is a woman ( nor should she have to). A woman is not to blame because someone twisted inside attacked them simply because they are a woman and have something they want to take from them. Being vulnerable is not something that is a fault, let alone something that should be looked at as a source of blame. It just blows my mind, as well as makes me sad..... that people think this way at all. It shows how far our society has yet to come on education. It is often the reactions and blame of others that force victims to have to deal with things in silence. People stay silent when they feel ashamed, or like others will see them as damaged, and to blame somehow.

For the record, my step-father was both a police officer, and a corrections officer at the state penitentiary.

When I had the ptsd flashbacks, a big factor for me was that I so often felt helpless, and terrified due to being small. I had no control, or ability to fight-off those so much bigger than me. I relived that sensation over and over...... and thus when I turned to food as a comfort source ( reaching "full" state in an attempt to distract from the emptiness of the soul wound).....I also felt protected by the size that I gained. It helped me to feel more in control, and safer ( even as an adult, I am only 5'2"). It meant that people would not see me as a target, or be interested in me..... as well as made me feel like I would have some size and weight to use should something happen. I hurt my own self to try to " make myself less desirable" to bad people. THAT is what happens when people are made to feel at blame, or like they have to be the one to control what others see, or want to take. You might be able to hide belondings in a car, but how do you hide that you are female? How do you hide that you are vulnerable to people who would take advantage of that? You hide your own self.... not just under layers of clothing ( because that doesn't really stop someone seeking to rape)..... you make yourself as undesirable as possible----even if it means harming your own self to achieve it. No one should feel they have to do that, let alone have others push blame on to them for somehow contributing to why someone desired them. When the ptsd hit me, I went from being someone who was playing leading ladies in productions etc..... to weighing over 300 pounds. I more than doubled my size in a short period of time, and just stopped looking in mirrors. For years I dealt with facing the abuse itself, but more recently have now been addressing the damage caused by the things I used to help myself cope. Largely I have been focusing on learning how to love my body, and see it as a gift.... and not just a beat-up car, or something that can be used against me. I have lost 150 pounds, and have become self-aware of portion sizes, and not over-eating for emotional reasons. I am finally getting back on a stage. People see me again, and I am learning how to view that as a good thing, and not as something that puts me at risk of being targeted and hurt.

I clearly talked about human nature, and that there are bad people out there who seek to take from, and harm others. The whole point is, no one should ever be blamed in any form for the bad actions and cruelty of others. We are not to blame for bad people existing. Can we try to protect ourselves, yes.... but regardless, it is never someone's fault that another person was ( and did something) bad. I cannot help but cringe to think you said things like this to someone who is a survivor, let alone felt you needed to " teach her" to view what was done to her as being her fault. Telling someone they are to blame, even in some small way, for a crime committed against them that they did not ask for----is wrong. It creates further damage and mental pain. It is hard enough for a person already feeling shame, and struggling to understand they are not dirty, or at fault, or damaged goods..... let alone to have outside people saying, " well you should not have.....you should have.... if you had paid attention..... if you had not worn that.......". No. That is flat-out horrible. Any therapist or specialist in trauma would likely seethe to see this perspective, let alone to hear/ see that a victim is being "taught" to take blame for being violated against their will. The healing process, and therapy for victims is largely focused on helping the person to understand they are NOT to blame, and how to not further hurt their own selves with those kind of beliefs and perspectives. Telling someone that they did something that caused it, is the opposite of helping them to heal, not to mention is completely wrong/ untrue to begin with. I really hope for the sake of the person you claim to love, that you come to understand this, and not further hurt them by putting any form of blame on them. The thing is, people often take those kind of things on the chin, and hold it inside. " Yes, you are right.... I was stupid.... I should not have done that.... it was my fault...." It is a natural response for a victim to blame themselves to begin with. Shame is a tool that can be used to keep people silent, and feeling like they have to take any additional blows in silence in order to not make it any worse......they may nod their head and agree simply because they can't take being told again how it was their fault----because that causes pain. Thus, when you tell a victim some part of something was their fault, you feed into the very things that a victim needs to work past, make it harder for them to feel like they can talk about it ( because of the risk of being shamed/ blamed).... and make them feel they will upset you if they try to oppose what you are saying---especially if they want to avoid conflict. It puts a victim in almost an impossible position. Victims are good at silently enduring for the sake of not making others uncomfortable, or having to have more blame, shame, or reminders of how stupid they are placed on them. It is the very reason I kept silent when it happened to me----because I had been blamed previously ( at nine-years-old, no less), and could not bare to have that happen again. It was better to endure my own torment in silence, than to have others add to it, and make it all the worse.

No one asks for, or deserves to be violated. It doesn't matter what a person wears, what their history is--- if they say no, it is not something that should be taken. Victims are not to be blamed----ever. It all comes down to being the fault of BAD people. Bad people who cannot control THEIR impulses, bad people who steal, victimize, hurt others etc.... for selfish gain and pleasures. Having a shopping bag in a car does not mean it is the owner's fault that someone else with no moral compass or respect for others broke into their car and stole from them. The way you are rationalizing/ looking at things is essentially saying its someone's fault for "inviting" it, like they should have known better-----instead of understanding that the bad person never should have seen it as invitation, or something to steal, take, or violate.... in the first place. Most people who walk by a car and see a laptop on the backseat do not look at it as an invitation to take it....... it is only bad, selfish people who would see it as something they can steal. Heck, most of us.... even if we find a lost wallet or purse.....do what we can to return it, let alone actively set-out to steal from others. All of this also applies to sexual assault. Just because a woman is by herself somewhere, or showing some skin.... does not mean it is an invitation to be raped. It does not make it her fault. It is still, and always, the fault of the perpetrator who thinks it is pleasurable to steal/ take, force, hurt etc... against someone's will. A woman walking home at night is not to blame, she is not "asking for it." Sorry, but it is just so backwards to suggest a victim is at all to blame for the lack of control, lack of moral compass, and the desire to harm..... that bad people have. " Well its your fault you got the attention of a bad person".....instead of...."that bad person never should have been bad to begin with, or taken something without permission." When a store is stolen from, do we say, " Well, it is their fault for stocking things people would want to steal"?? That is essentially what is being said here when an assault victim is in any way blamed for the crime. Can we try to take precautions to not catch attention? Yes, but even so, it is still never someone's fault (precautions or no) for someone else being "bad" and stealing from, or hurting others against their will. It is not a victim's fault that bad people exist. I was 14, shy, and had never even kissed a boy. I was wearing a skirt, yes.... but it was a modest swing skirt that was several inches below my knees ( it was not tight). I had on a top that revealed nothing but my wrists and hands. I was wearing ked sneakers. I was in that room because I wanted to be away from the older boys downstairs who made me uncomfortable----and I was only there in the first place because I was visiting a childhood friend for the weekend who took me there to " say hi" to someone, and I had no previous knowledge of what, or who that entailed. So, is it my fault that I wore a skirt ( be it a modest one)----did that invite it because it made it easier? Is it my fault because I was much smaller than the young man, so that invited it because it meant I was limited in ability to fight back? Is it my fault because my hair was long enough to grip----and thus was an invitation for him to use it to ensnare me? Of course not. Bad people will hurt, steal, assault..... regardless. The reason I am vocal about this....is because this very mindset creates torment for victims. It is horrific enough for a person to experience an assault, let alone to be tortured with thinking it was some how their fault...... or to encounter people who even wrongfully tell them that, and treat them as if they were bad, or stupid, or had it coming in some kind of way. It forces people to endure abuse in silence, and live with the weight of blame and shame that is not even theirs...... it causes people to feel ashamed for wrong they did not do, but rather had inflicted on them. It further hurts, and victimizes people. My mother blamed me when things came out about my stepfather when I was 9. She had known the whole time, and not cared.... she just was mad it was discovered, and that it meant she had to leave the situation to save face......and she was afraid I would tell others about her part in things. So she shamed me into silence---she told me people would see me as bad, dirty....that no one would play with, or talk to me, that if people knew, they would see how bad and stupid that I was. She even trained me to not say anything in the group counseling session the court put me in. I thought it was my fault.... that I was dirty, unlovable, unworthy. When I was assaulted at 14, instead of having the support of parents, and receiving the medical care I very much had been in the need of..... I kept silent, because I knew I would have been blamed, and that it would have been thrown at me over and over as an example of how stupid I was. No one should ever feel that way when they have been victimized. No one should be blamed. People should be supported, and told over and over that it was not their fault, that they should not feel ashamed.... that they are loved, and are still a good person of worth.

I am sorry, this just..... is not correct. I know you went through things as well, but no one is ever at fault for being violated or abused. No one asks for it. Typically, healing is about learning how to NOT take the blame, and how to release the shame etc.....and gain understanding that we were not at fault. When someone harms another person, it is their crime to carry, and answer for.....not the victim's. Our society still at times struggles to grasp this. We live in a world where women are typically blamed." Well, what was she wearing? What kind of past history does she have?" .....No, means no. If a man wears a football jersey does that mean he is asking for people to tackle/ body slam him? Of course not. I was 14. I blamed myself for years because I did not trust my instinct and leave the room when my friend went out.....I thought it was my fault because I was stupid, because I had been wearing a skirt, because I did not fight harder.......however, it was NOT my fault. Often we blame ourselves because it gives us a sense of control....if we are to blame, it means we can some how correct, or prevent it from happening again. It gives us a target, and something to lash-out at when we do not have the option to do that against the one who truly is to blame.

I am going to use myself as an example. In the past I would not have even been able to talk about things, because I felt shamed, and constantly worried that others would be uncomfortable, or reject me. However, one of the stages in my own healing process has been to be more vocal, and I have discovered doing so has helped many others. I had the kind of childhood people write books about. Narcissistic/ sociopath mother who took pleasure in harming me, and didn't care about what my stepfather, or her boyfriends did. I was beaten constantly, choked, burned, slammed into things, had teeth punched out....on top of being molested, and constantly verbally shredded ( worthless, no one will love, ugly, stupid etc...). When stepfather left, the neglect started..... lack of supervision, lack of food, utilities often off because money went to drugs.....and when I was eleven I had an excruciating medical condition that any adult would have rushed to the emergency room with, but because I was a child.....I had to endure it for months. I knew I was dying and didn't understand anyone was supposed to care.....my attempts to get help resulted in beatings. It got to the point that I could barely walk....and I prayed to not wake-up/ to die....so the pain would end. Screamed for hours and was ignored. I then was assaulted when I was 14, and kept silent because my mother had blamed and punished me previously, and I knew she would have again. Did I go through hell with ptsd, and trying to sort it all out? Yes. However, here I am now....talking. For me, I discovered I had to face everything-- fully feel, think, explore etc... and one by one, the flashbacks stopped. I started regaining my life, and myself again, and was stronger.....as well as came out with a stronger testimony as well. I was extremely bent and weak for a while..... but now I have very deep roots. If I was able to achieve that, with everything that was stacked against me..... anyone can......just in their own way, time, and methods. So please do not judge people simply based on where they are in their progress. That would essentially be like looking at the initial base sketch of a painting and making a determination that it is rubbish, when in reality it is a master piece in the making. Elizabeth Smart is amazing, and I cannot express that enough. However, other people should not be compared to her, or expected to come-out the same. There are factors that are not being considered. She went home to a loving, supportive family, and received care. Many survivors suffer the abuse from the hands of their family ( who are supposed to love and protect them), and experience it for years..... in silence. No support, love etc.... You can't expect someone who has had those kind of experiences to instantly pop-up healed and strong on their own. Some people do not have any love or light to "stretch towards". When I used my analogy about being trapped between locked doors----that was because I did not have anyone, and had never even experienced being touched with love etc.... You equated Elizabeth Smart to that, but she did have previous loving experiences, and went home to a loving family.... so again, you cannot compare, or expect the same results from everyone. There are so many factors that contribute. Those ( like myself) who were abused at very young ages often have nothing else to refer to. I grew up thinking touch was something that caused harm and pain. People cannot instantly be "normal"..... they typically need to experience positive experiences, love etc... to help break original programming. And yet, like I mentioned previously....... that sometimes can be hard to find when people simply keep pushing away.

Thank you. That is beautiful. ::hug:: This is both my favorite scripture, and painting combined......

Agree.....in fact, I was itching to reply with much the same response when I read that. No two people are a like. We all have different experiences, different ways of coping, different ways of healing...... there is no exact formula. Additionally, people lock, and store things inside of them. Think of it like the mind hitting pause buttons to protect someone from something they can not cope with ( especially children), and eventually the pause button is released and suddenly "plays" ( thus how flashbacks happen). So some people may seem strong and fine, when really they have not fully remembered or addressed things yet, or simply are good at "concealing" ( like so many of us are, especially those who experienced ongoing abuse/ were trained ). Someone who seems weak and cowed over a situation is NOT destined to remain that way, it just means they are still in need of stages of healing. No one is "instantly okay" after being attacked..... if they are, its because they are in denial. Most everyone will experience the broken stage ( some longer than others), but it is still possible for them to face, overcome, and grow.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I was responding mainly to the couple people that just referred to her as "baggage" and "damaged" and to move on etc...... I know not everyone said that. It just made me cringe, for obvious reasons. Yes, it is good that she at least is being honest with herself, and him as well regarding what her limits are at this point ( that is a good starting point). It is also helpful to know what the cause and situation is, because if he does decide to stick it out, he can know better how to help and support her on her journey. Its also still possible that she won't be "deadlocked" as long as she currently thinks. Victims say that because it can seem overwhelming and impossible, but often people find once they do face things, and have support etc.... that things resolve in ways they had not expected to be possible previously. As for affecting a person when it comes to perspectives, and personal inner-wiring etc.... yes, abuse does make people "different". Even once someone has overcome things ( as I have), there can still be differences and quirks etc.... BUT, that is not always a bad thing. I have found having had my experiences has given me insight, awareness to others, appreciation, strengths etc.... that I would not have gained in any other way. I have been able to help people in unique ways, and to me that is a blessing, and helps me to view my past with greater understanding. So there truly are positive "differences" that people gain. Adversity is what often results in the greatest wisdom, strength of character, and compassion for others. So though someone may be struggling now, they could blossom into something truly special later once they work their way through things. It is just something to consider when rushing to label someone as "baggage" etc.....

Some of these comments and recommendations make my heart hurt. I am a survivor..... was abused in many forms as a child. When I was a young adult it all started to surface, including the intense need to not be alone anymore----to have someone to talk to, hugs, feel cared for etc...... I didn't have any of that growing up, and was very emotionally isolated/ alienated. For years I tried to reach-out to people, and over and over it was the same result. I was pushed-away, ignored....treated like an inconvenience. It was as if my very needs created barriers / prohibited those needs being met, because as soon as anyone got a glimpse, or heard a small bit of my story---they would disappear. Mind, I never even really asked for help, and was someone who constantly helped, and over-gave to others......so I was not a "drain".....just people literally would treat me like I was damaged goods and not worth giving the time to that it would take to just talk with me, or even give a hand-squeeze. I ended-up developing complex post-traumatic stress disorder ( I was hit with flashbacks that were like time warps of re-experiencing it all over and over), and again people turned away. I was lectured by a long-time friend about how I should go out and seek new friends to see if someone would be willing to help ( which is a horrible thing to say to someone in immediate need by the way)......and heard, " I can see you need help, but am worried if I provide it you will depend on me." I ended-up shutting down and isolating myself with the sense that I had to protect myself ( including from rejection).....and turned to food for comfort. I tried to fill the emptiness of a soul-wound with food. I had to go through it all alone, and in silence again, despite my initial attempts to get help. I would not wish for anyone to know what that is like. Imagine having locked, chained-up doors in front of you, and darkness pressing behind you----essentially being trapped. My point here is.... despite all the hype out there saying that victims are not "damaged goods".....people tend to treat us like that anyway. So many jump to the conclusion that it is too much work, would require too much of them.... would take-up time. They would rather have someone ready-made, and "not damaged" .......yet pride themselves in going to an animal shelter and "rescuing" an abused dog. It is natural to want to reject, and stand against abuse and violations..... to not even want to think about those kind of things. However, too often in the effort to push those "uncomfortable things" away..... the victims also get pushed away, and further isolated and hurt. It communicates to them that they are damaged goods, and worthless... unwanted. It continues the abuse, and even can succeed in making the abuser's intent and words come true. " No one will ever want, or love you....." It contributes. We talk about using Christ as an example in how we lead our lives, and how we treat others. Do you really think he would turn-away someone who had been abused? Deny them because they will require some time, love and patience? Those who have been abused are the most in need of love and support, and yet so many are quick to step-away, and even automatically advise others to do so as well. This young woman likely has ptsd, but does not know it, or understand. It sounds like she is experiencing triggers that cause emotional flashback responses. She also maybe has lived in silence for so long, and is simply so down on herself that she doubts her own ability to recover-----because it can feel like a lonely pit that is impossible to climb out of. The thing is, it is not true. With help, support, therapy.... LOVE..... being shown care, and that touch does not equate to pain..... people can heal. Does it take extra time, patience, love, and giving of self? Yes. However, you know how those rescued dogs often turn-out to be the most loyal and loving? The same can be true with abused people when they finally find love----because they of all people understand how precious it is. If you truly love this young woman ( and really when we do love people, we don't look at them as inconveniences or abandon them--- so I guess if anyone feels those kind of responses it says where their hearts really are)....... please know that she is not a "lost cause", even if she herself right now thinks that she is. It took a lot of courage for her to explain to you what happened to her ( and she likely has not shared that with many). I would recommend researching ptsd, and look for support groups for family and partners of survivors/ people with ptsd...... because there are so many resources out there that can help you help her. Chances are, seeing you support her, seeking ways to help her.... in itself likely will do absolute wonders in how she views herself, as well in her ability to trust and open-up to you ( in many ways). Most likely, she told you those things with the fear, and knowledge that it could result in losing you. Victims suffer feeling shame, and become conditioned to expect that most people will just see them as damaged, and not want them. Please everyone, don't throw people away. Love one another.

Bini, Firstly, I am so sorry that you have experienced this kind of loss. I know that it is unlike normal grief.... because those who remain are left haunted with the "what ifs", and shattering shock......I know, because my baby sister took her own life eleven months ago. Firstly, we never hid it. At first people politely did not directly say it, but as time has passed both my family, and her friends have become more vocal about it. For us, it is because we do not want anyone to think we are in any way ashamed of her, or what happened. She had an illness. There is no shame when someone dies from cancer, or some other disease/ illness......yet we have a long history of incorrect notions, beliefs, stigma, and shame regarding suicide. It is still an illness that causes it. This is why we often say, when people ask how she died.... " Depression". When people are in that kind of place.....they cannot think clearly. Pain drowns out everything, false notions pound at them. Sometimes they just want the pain to go away, and cannot understand what else will go with it. Additionally, there is the false belief that it is a selfish act that also contributes to "shame" etc... when in reality, they often think that they will taint everyone, and that those they love will be better off without them. My sister had two young children, and she never would have done something to hurt them.....and to us, that is the strongest indication of how twisted her perceptions were. It was clear in her journal that she thought they would be better off without her, and that she was not worthy of them. The reason I have been vocal, is because we as a society need to be educated about the truth behind the causes of suicide, as well as learn how to perceive mental illness is new ways. If people did not feel ashamed, and if others understood better how to respond......so many losses could be prevented. My sister told her younger sister ( and her maternal side) about her plans, and tragically, she did not know how to respond, or that she should have taken it seriously ( which is common). I know that she did not tell me, because she knew I would have taken it seriously and acted/ prevented. I unfortunately had told her a story of intervening for someone in the past. I am so sorry that your family does not understand these things. Of course it is their own choice..... but often concealing things in that way causes people to have to bottle up their pain, feelings, reactions.... and leaves them in silent torment and confusion over what happened. It is difficult beyond words even for those of us who are allowed to openly talk about it. It is so hard to grasp, and the mental wheels of self-blame, and thinking over " what ifs..." is pure torment. I logically understand it was not my fault, and that I was there for her and told her many times that I loved her.... but its still hard to stop those wheels from spinning sometimes. I miss her so much. This is an article that I wrote ( I hope I am allowed to post it--it is not spam or selling anything). I continue to be amazed at how many clicks this gets, and I am glad.... because of all of my posts, this is the one I most would want to be viewed. It is my little voice contributing to the effort of breaking the stigmas. It details both the issues surrounding suicide and mental illness in general, as well as what I experienced through the loss of my precious sister. https://delaneylynnlostinthought.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/september-is-national-suicide-prevention-month/ I hope that you and your family can find understanding and peace. I am so sorry, my heart goes out to you.