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Seek

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  1. Mormon and gay. Where are we going?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 7/14/2018 at 7:40 AM, Fether said:

    Does anyone believe that one day the church will allow homosexuals to receive temple recommends?? I definitely don’t.

    Sure. One day it will be accepted that sexual gratification beyond procreation is sinful. Since homosexuals cannot procreate, and assuming that copulation is beyond their lifestyle, a homosexual could indeed receive a temple recommend. Why not? 

    It seems you generalize all homosexuals as being sexually ravenous. Which they are not.

  2. How do I inquire about a deleted thread?

    in 'How do I' Questions Forum

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

    Perhaps @Seek was just misunderstood? I was accused of being anti mormon in the last thread I started and I sincerely wasn't, maybe this is the same thing? A question people may find confronting doesn't automatically mean the person asking the question is attacking the church.  How are we supposed to learn and grow if that is our attitude?

    Totally. 

    I hadn't abused anyone, had I?  Or been profane?

    Where's the tolerance?

  8. How to deal with church critics and apostates?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 4/10/2017 at 8:08 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

    A couple of responses:

    1) When did I say anything about mentioning a person's individualized sins to that person?  Generally speaking I agree with you that that's generally a poor idea unless there is a relationship of trust and/or a family/priesthood stewardship.  But in the abstract, it is incumbent on Latter-day Saints in general, and priesthood holders in particular, to warn against every kind of sin; and not be muzzled just because someone who revels in that sin claims to be personally offended.  Nor does our weakness in one area of conduct, prevent us from speaking out against other moral ills that through the grace of Christ we have been able to avoid or overcome.

    2)  I notice that "Christians" of a certain stripe are very happy to parrot this "you break one sin, you've broken them all" canard.  But not many of them, having noticed their teenager stole a stick of gum, would be apathetic to their teenager's then proceeding to sexually molest a child.  Different sins have different severities, morally as well as legally.  We know this from our consciences as manifested in the way we actually live our individual lives; from the legal system we have implemented in our civil society; and from scriptures like Alma 39:5.

    3)  As for who gets into heaven before me:  if you think that we Christians/Mormons who warn against sin are primarily interested in smugly identifying the rubes who are going to Hell whilst gloating over our own exalted status--you really don't know us, or our conception of the relationship between sin and spiritual development, or Mormon soteriology, at all.  And sly suggestions that Mormons are sitting on a righteous high horse of their own making, come off as little more than simple projection.  Just who in this discussion is asserting their moral superiority over whom, pray tell?


    1. The gentleman I had quoted seemed to advocate such.  Since you quoted me in that context, I assumed you advocated the same.

    2. The point of this "canard" is to warn the faithful of their inability to properly distinguish between misdemeanor and felony; that they lack the judgment and knowledge to make such a call, and that such will be clarified at the resurrection.  Without this understanding one person can smugly point to another and say, "Look here, a felon!" and conjure animosity among others towards that person.

    3. When one person identifies another as a felon, they are being smug — even if they identify them for the sake of warning them.

  9. How to deal with church critics and apostates?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    On 4/9/2017 at 0:36 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

    Of course we are all in sin.  But some of us acknowledge and try to escape it.  Others of us wallow in it, then insist that no one dare mention our filth.

    The trouble with "helping such people to their feet" is that, spiritually speaking, those who choose to pursue a homosexual relationship don't want to get on their feet.  Talk about church as a hospital for the sick all you want; but don't forget that hospitals have a common denominator:  their patients want to get well; and they aren't trying to countermand the doctor's every order.

    We can be polite to those who reject the pattern of living that God has prescribed.  We can love them.  But we aren't helping anyone by pretending that there's moral equivalence between routinely engaging in sodomy, and letting out a cuss word every now and again.

    If a person's sin is neither abusive nor violent towards another, then don't mention it to them, because it's radically inappropriate to do so. When you call out their sin—unless as a cherished friend, or family—you're essentially saying that you're more righteous than they are (less "filthy"). 

    And with regard to someone who's content with practicing homosexuality, even as they acknowledge it's sin: Aren't we all content with some sin of ours? 

    Take this passage from James 2:

    "However, if you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not kill.” Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom." [James 2:8–12]

    So what you're saying is that sodomy is worse than cussing? or that one particular sin is more damnable than another?

    If so, perhaps there'll be people who "routinely engage in sodomy" that'll enter the kingdom of heaven before you do. 

  10. How to deal with church critics and apostates?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Seek

    30 minutes ago, yjacket said:

    And God has told us that wickedness never was happiness.  Either it is true or it isn't.  There is no middle ground. So for us as LDS members to be happy for someone who is living in sin is stupid.  

    You have bought into one of the lies of modern society.  We see that when 2 homosexuals get married.  Members of the church, saying "oh I'm so happy for you".  What have we gone mad.  I'm happy that you are entering into a life of sin, totally against God's will??

    When you express happiness at others who live their live in sin directly contrary to God's will that is not being a good example. We don't have to be jerks, but at the same time we don't have to condone it-and yes saying you are happy that they are happy is condoning it. 

    Who isn't living in sin? Let he who hasn't sinned cast the first word.

    Why not lend a hand and help them to their feet so to speak (be positive), instead of keeping them down with your open disapproval? 

    If you took the log out of your own eye before trying to take the sliver out of theirs, that would be one thing.

  12. Exaltation and Isaiah 66: 1-2

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    Greetings everyone, and peace be with you.

    I am considering becoming a member of the Church, as I like many of the teachings.  However, when it comes to the nature of God and exaltation, it is one teaching I cannot accept — not because I am not open to the idea, but because I feel there is no sound case for it; Isaiah 66, verses 1 & 2 come to mind.  Isaiah seems to make clear that God is spirit, and that a particular man shall one day embody that spirit — the Christ.  Notice that God poses the question, "Where is the place of my rest?"

    I would be grateful for your thoughts on this.


    New American Bible, Revised Edition

        Thus says the Lord:
    The heavens are my throne,
        the earth, my footstool.
    What house can you build for me?
        Where is the place of my rest?

    My hand made all these things
        when all of them came to be—oracle of the Lord.
    This is the one whom I approve:
        the afflicted one, crushed in spirit,
        who trembles at my word.


    King James Version

    Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

    For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.


    Young's Literal Translation

    Thus said Jehovah: The heavens [are] My throne, And the earth My footstool, Where [is] this — the house that ye build for Me? And where [is] this — the place — My rest?

    And all these My hand hath made, And all these things are, An affirmation of Jehovah! And unto this one I look attentively, Unto the humble and bruised in spirit, And who is trembling at My word.