runewell

OK, let's suppose we get past this initial stage. We repent of our sins and accept Christ's forgiveness. Christ did all the work, we are essentially flipping on a switch, allowing it to happen. You say it is works, I say it isn't, in either case it needs to happen. Now what is required of us beyond that step?

Great you just hijacked the thread

OK, let's suppose we get past this initial stage. We repent of our sins and accept Christ's forgiveness. Christ did all the work, we are essentially flipping on a switch, allowing it to happen. Now what is required of us beyond that step?

Please enlighten me, it looks quite straightforward.

After bytebear's comment I think I am on-topic enough.

So are you saying you or someone you know has eradicated every evil desire?

Lots of people will do works (yet not know God) and come up disappointed on the day of judgment. God is first and foremost interested in establishing a relationship. Just because people will be judged by their works in Bible verses doesn't guarantee that the outcome will be a good one. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Regarding the first question, salvation is a gift that cannot be earned. You have repent of your sin and accept this gift. There is nothing you can do to earn or deserve it. Just like getting a gift at Christmas, you unwrap the gift and enjoy it. Nobody puts conditions on it. Nobody asks you to pay your fair share. Unwrapping the gift isn't "work". You can die one minute later with a life devoid of works and live with Him in Heaven. Acts of love and gratitude towards God are things we choose to do after salvation. But nothing we can do will earn salvation because All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) I must confess I still don't understand the double-dipping concept in the second question. :shrug:

Such as?

What can I say, your "rid the unwelcome via arrogance" campaign hasn't had the effect you'd hoped.

Actually, I did answer a question, maybe not all of them and not to your liking.

According to Brigham Young, To be Saints indeed requires every wrong influence that is within them, as individuals, to be subdued, until every evil desire is eradicated, and every feeling of their hearts is brought into subjection to the will of Christ (DBY, 91). I suppose you meant aspiring to saintliness, not being a saint. None of us is perfect to fulfill Brigham Young's definition of a saint.

I suppose it is God because wants us to choose to love Him. If everyone were automatically accepted, nobody would have to choose God. Also, without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6). Time and time again God requires His people to have faith in Him.

Romans 6:1-2 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

The subtitle for this thread is "Discuss LDS teachings. Ask questions about LDS theology or doctrine." I think you'll find I was asking questions about LDS theology. Perhaps you should have that subtitle modified to say that no Christian concepts are allowed.

To be Saints indeed requires every wrong influence that is within them, as individuals, to be subdued, until every evil desire is eradicated, and every feeling of their hearts is brought into subjection to the will of Christ (DBY, 91). According to Brigham Young's definition of a saint, I don't think anybody on this earth qualifies. The New Testament says something quite different.

OK hearing your perspective has been helpful.

All of us have failed to keep the Lord's commandments, therefore we will not be saved?

Just that. We need to be perfect. However, we are sinful and can never come anywhere close to meeting that requirement.

I can't yet check out the video at work. These two statements remain a contradiction in my mind. If Jesus took care of our salvation 100%, how does personal responsibility add to it? The New Testament also speaks to how fruit and good works should be evident following salvation, but not a pre-requisite for it.

Just a few minutes ago I was trying to determine if the phrase "really try" meant repent, and if it did, why didn't the speaker just use the word repent. Probably because I'm not convinced the speaker actually meant repent at all. I think that "repent" means turn away from sin whereas "really try" is analagous to "continuous improvement". I am not attempting to twist words out of their intended meaning I am intending to clarify them. I'm sorry to hear that the spirit of person0 perceives malintent.

The misunderstanding is unintentional I assure you, I heard from other LDS that interpreted it that way. To be Saints indeed requires every wrong influence that is within them, as individuals, to be subdued, until every evil desire is eradicated, and every feeling of their hearts is brought into subjection to the will of Christ (DBY, 91). It requires all the atonement of Christ, the mercy of the Father, the pity of angels and the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ to be with us always, and then to do the very best we possibly can, to get rid of this sin within us, so that we may escape from this world into the celestial kingdom (DBY, 60). This second paragraph sounds very familiar. Brigham Young claimed the atonement of Christ was necessary, AND THEN to do the very best we possibly can. So what exactly did Jesus accomplish and what is our requirement.

Thanks Lostboy, I appreciate your comments. What I don't understand it, if we are going to fall short, how close do we need to be? I would think that there is always more you can do. Theoretically, if we are saved after all we can do, there is certainly something more we could have done, therefore we have not done all we can do, therefore we have no reason to expect to be saved?

The Miriam-Webster definition of repentance (the first one, anyway) says "to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life" Contrast that with: “Really trying” means doing the best we can, recognizing where we need to improve, and then trying again. By repeatedly doing this, we come closer and closer to the Lord This doesn't seem like a recognition of sin and turning away from said sin but rather an attempt to maintain perfection - like a self-help book. If this phrase refers to turning away from sin it doesn't seem to want to call it as such.

So how do we accomplish this?