Ah - women as victims, not capable of dealing with issues as individual sentient adults. They require that others give them the tools to cope. Poor things. I agree with your sarcasm, Snow. It's all about the money to people who are in that industry. Women can make up their own minds about what they want to do. They are not victims, unless they are under 18. i have to disagree with this sarcasm. most women in this industry might have chose it, but those that work and recruite for this industry are cunning and there are those that get sucked in and don't know how to get out; they are victims. but i think the originator of this topic was more thinking of the women who are victims from their husbands or loved ones looking at it, not the women staring in it. having the ability to build a boat and the tools and know how to do so are very different. women have the ability, the intelegence and capacity to deal with any stress that comes into life, no matter how large; as do men. but that doesn't always mean we have the tools or the know how. if you've ever had a very difficult, emotional, situation thrown upon you in which you didn't have the imeadiate answer on how to approach it you know how frustraiting, depressing, debilitating, and numbing it can be. you end up in a place you can't get out of. the most brilliant of ppl end up sitting there helpless to do anything. if you bring ppl into the discussion BEFORE the situation arrises, give them the tools and the knowledge base then if/when it comes up they can rise above it, know how to respond and deal with the situation. you can give that information after the situation has arrived, assuming a depression hasn't set in that will prevent the ability to truely comprehend it all. maybe if we talked about different kinds of devistating issues before we are in them there will be more supportive appropriate responses than just tucking tail and running. women aren't dealing or coping with offenses from men, they are just divorcing them and hoping to find a better one out there (true in reverse as well). in my opinion that is what makes a victim, don't deal, just run and then blame it all on the other person. whatever happend to fighting for your marriage? bring it into the open, talk about it, talk about how to overcome, understand it inside and out; then if/when the situation arrises you will know how to respond, you can respond, you can act; with firmness and compassion; with support and boundries; you can together overcome and resolve the issue........or you can play the "independant woman" victim card and divorce. i do think there are times divorce is necessary or unavoidable, it does take two to make a marriage work and to fight for it; but i think all to often it is seen as a first resort rather than a last. I appreciate your insight ALmom. I to believe that there needs to be more communication about these types of issues. It is a problem that is devastating members of the church. The issue is not that the church has kept quiet but has not said enough. Plain stay away does not work for everybody. I am a convert to the church and know firsthand what it is like to be confronted with the no pornography card. Not everyone is raised in a family that holds the highest church standards and values. This is why there needs to be more dialouge between men, women and the authorities of the church. We must all do it together.