Brenton
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Posts posted by Brenton
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I'm not. It's a matter of speculation.Brenton....you really should lay off insulting the Church........RULES!!
Well I'm glad you understand science so well, fábjáni!!Oh.....I mean everyone but Brenton, Elphaba and Rastler....they will just be worm food since there isn't a God. Just kidding......
You're actually making some sense. Here's my distinction, and it's important socially - but mainly ignored at this time ... you have no right to tell someone what to believe.believe in such superstitions
But you do have the right to tell someone what is EMPIRICALLY truthful.
I'm not going to pretend to know the position or thought of the person that said that to you. But here's my take on that though, a dress is just a design. It's "okay" for a woman to wear pants, but its not okay for a man to wear a "dress" even though both things are just fabric.I've even been called a bigot because I once said I'd not let my male children wear dresses. (Who, exactly, I'm supposed to be bigoted against was never made clear, but meh.)
That, my friend is the biggest crock. Telling someone who to vote is not politically neutral, nor is it morally neutral. The LDS church claims to be morally correct, but politically neutral.Politically neutral....not morally neutral.
I know you clearly take it as insulting the Church, but I really have a feeling it's got to do, deep down, with taxation issues. Otherwise the church wouldn't care, with all their talk of free agency for all.
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There is no such thing as a smart person, an intellectual yes (person who understands correctly and works well with knowledge) such an example would be Dawkins. Truth is not told, it is realised.Odd, isn't it? I mean the politically correct, liberal crowd says that it's wrong to say that traits like intelligence are mostly due to genetics (even though there's plenty of evidence to back that up) yet it's perfectly okay to say that a guy wanting to get intimate with another guy is genetic (even though there's no compelling evidence to back that up).
So youre comparing homosexuality to those things? How, errrmmm... "intelligent" of you.Tomorrow science: the now found the murderer gene, the arson gene, thieve gene, thug gene, and so on...
First of all, arson, theivery, "thuggery" and so on ... are not inbuilt. These things are almost always done by people with lower levels of education, who dont have much money etc. The average intellectual, scholar or other such person is MUCH less likely to do these things.
It is the system of instutions by which our society runs by, which are outdated, are the causes of these problems. Politics, money, traditional famial values, "jobs", religion and other things are all things which do not solve problems but create more and lead to a less educated and understanding society, and they're the major basis for all our problems.
Religion, is a superstitious thing (there's no getting away from that), and people are welcome to believe whatever they want, but isnt it an interesting thing to note that those with a higher education are statistically much, much MUCH less likely to believe in superstitious notions for the way the universe "goes"?
I'm glad you can see the legal instutions are useless. Society, not knowing how to solve what they percieve as a "problem" make a law. How pathetic.All, you need to remember how they are trying to legalize the same gender marriages - by back-dooring through the court system. Reminds me of the failed Nephites court system when secret combination controlled the government and court systems.
This is the third time I've said this, but it needs to be said again and again.
The LDS church is simply worried about another threat to it's not-for-profit status - should gay marriage become more nationalised.
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try lulu?
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I was being a little facetious, and was really too lazy to omit the Bestial marriage question.I'm not sure whether you're being facetious or not.
Actually, our Constitution specifically says that the individual states have the right to legislate everything that's not provided in the Constitution, which at this point doesn't talk about marriage.
Also, in this country, marriage in a contract. Animals cannot enter into contracts. Surely, this is the case in Australia as well?
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The public institutions should be limited to saying it is what it is, we need to treat everyone with due respect and dignity, and whether the lifestyle be right or wrong is a discussion to take up with your families at home.
If thats the case, then the public institutions shouldn't encourage the nuclear family either.
You cannot have Health and Human Development (subject name in Australia) without talking about all the genders and all the different sorts of families.
The parents would demand that the teachers teach integrity. And if integrity, then why not chastity?Chastity is no more natural than wearing clothing.
But in those walls there rages a war for the minds of men.Ofcourse. You're only told what youre supposed to know.
Religion is taught in some schools, but not comparative religion.
History is taught, but only how we want to tell it. etc
Can we have Bestial Marriages? Can we have Plural Marriages? Perhaps, I can marry myself? I think there is a gene to prove that one called the 'Three Ids'. If not, I think every special interest group should have their own way in society and receive their own rights. Brenton, is this what you want?Absolutely, I'm surprised Americans dont. Your constitution was designed to protect ALL the minorities. You are supposed to be living in a Constiutional Republic, but infact youre in a "democracy" now, like we all are. -sigh-
People should be allowed to do whatever they want in the way of marriage. As long as it doesnt infringe on anyones rights (and being offended by certain marriages is not, a loss of a right).
I watched the video on the newsroom and thats the saddest excuse for something ive ever heard. I think the Church is just worried they could lose their not-for-profit status if gay marriage became more nationally sanctioned.
There is a big difference between isolating a gene which is in someway proven to contribute to same gender attraction and issuing a statement on morality.The Church is politically neutral when it comes to telling it's members who to vote for. When it comes to issues they (we) feel harm the things we consider sacred...then they get involved.That's still not politically neutral because the Church is encouraging members how to vote.
But where says some is the King of America? I'll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the Royal Brute of Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve as monarchy, that in America THE LAW IS KING. For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other. But lest any ill use should afterwards arise, let the crown at the conclusion of the ceremony be demolished, and scattered among the people whose right it is.Intersting quote of you to use.
let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God;Clearly if you read that carefully, Mr Paine is saying that we have no need for the divine law.
I'll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the Royal Brute of Britain.And here, he is clearly stating that God has nothing whatever to do with human affairs. Paine was a deist.
Nor do the Gays have the right to infringe and force their own beliefs in public shcools.Nor do the straights.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until voters discover they can vote themselves largess (generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back again to bondage. (By Alexander Tyler Frasier, over 200 years ago.)
The collapse of society has nothing whatever to do with religion. It's the monetary system. That's what controls our lives. It's what keeps things scarce, and stops sustainable living, all so industry can profit etc. Religion is a burden to those who do not require it.
Now did I say homosexual behavior is unnatural? Now that would be difficult even to determine what is natural or not. I mean really, things like incest are perfectly natural in the animal kingdom and in humansI find it interesting that you put humans seperate to the animal kingdom. Humans are as much animal as a cat or a koala. Since there are many other gay animals, one can scientifically assume it is a genetic thing.
Yes, every society tries to determine a moral framework in which to live by.That may be true, but are you honestly going to call a Christian lifestyle moral? Humans seek good just like any other animal, because we know were doomed if we cant get along.
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If I could actually trust the stuff in the newspapers, then I'd believe that. ;pHe hopes to draw us into war and into bankruptcy
It's pretty funny because, his plan is working perfectly if that's true because the american debt is going to be unaffordable in less than a decade and the whole world is going to become bankrupt in turn.
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The problem I'm seeing here is that people are saying "morality should be taught in the home" out of one side of their mouth, but then insisting that public schools are doing nothing wrong by normalizing homosexual marriage in the point of view of the students.
But the thing is, you dont have a right to enforce your morality on anyone.
Religious morality really is a "thing for the home".
If I were a religious person I would feelt that way.
Religion has no right to infringe on the legal rights of others.
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But kids should still be taught that there -are- gay people, and oh, that scientific knowledge seems to say that people are born that way (that has no bearing on religion though, because ive heard a few people say that genetics can make us sin).Exactly. There is simply no need for the school administration to make any statement either way. It is no different from the subject of religion, the administration has no need to affirm or deny the existence of any deity whatsoever. It's a can of worms that simply has no benefit in the opening thereof.
-a-train
I really do think the existence of gay people is totally different from the existence of God. You can test, repeat and observe homosexuality.
Heres the other problem, if children aren't educated about it, then they're going to have predjudice.
It's interesting to note this
I was -sure- the Church was politically neutral.Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are California citizens currently living out of the state are being organized to make phone calls in support of Proposition 8, if needed.
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Any school that recieves government money from [what should be] a secular one, has every right to say homosexuality is acceptable.It is simply audacious that any school administration would find it necessary to make any statement to the student body one way or the other concerning the social acceptability and morality of homosexuality. It is a demonstration of either incompetence or lack of efficacy that such a coarse of action is allowed. The situation could easily be avoided. Schools do not have any necessity to issue such statements.
Or if not that, they shouldn't be allowed to condemn it. Condemning something to children, gives them the sense of everything being black and white (dark vs. light, good vs. evil). IF they do condemn it, the child should always be reminded that the bible doesnt justify violence against gay people (well, at least not the NT).
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Oh ofcourse, its the lesbos that are your nations problem. *rolls eyes*Smal private schools are a LOT better than big schools with lesbo teachers (I been in one).
Gay marriage should be legal.
But I dont think they should be allowed to get married in churches ... I mean, why on earth would the majority of them WANT to in the first place?
I'm thinking this. LDS church is against national recognisation of gay marriage because it would threaten it's non-profit status?
And also, I guess it doesn't fit with the gospel principles of eternal families.
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Ofcourse it happened, but the lie is the circumstances of the fact (for example: many of the supposed hijackers are still alive). The other lie of the of the circumstance is that terrorism is a big danger to the world. The US terrorist list has over 1 million people on it now.Terrorism is a big lie. An enemy image to "keep us together".
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Please explain. From my point of view, 9/11 did in fact happen, and it was in fact an act of terrorism.
And "terrorist" is used by the govt for any who doesnt stick to the status quo, basically.
Just let me say this. The North American Air Space Command failed 4 times on 9/11, they'd had full accuracy beforehand. It's just a little too strange that they didn't get fighter jets up in the air after the first tower was hit, or even after the second. It took about 80 or so minutes for NORAD to respond, its just unheard of, the only logical thing is that they were deliberately confused.
"We will never forget, what a government did to its own people, to start a war."
I just cannot believe that people dont see this, okay -- you have your right to say whatever you think, but I do too.
We are given to believe that some guy in a cave, had NORAD stand down, the best air security in the world.
This is just bull. THINK!Quotes from Osama Bin Laden:
The Bush family has had great ties with the Bin Laden family.
Just months before 9/11 the cia was ordered to back off investigations on the bin laden family ... HELLO!?!
The problem is, most of the "muslim hate" towards the west (which is very much not mainstream in muslim society, let me assure you) stems from the fact that the us insists on presence in middle eastern countries, and thats because the us is building an empire, and getting cheaper resources from it -- whether its the world bank insisting on the privatisation of foreign infrastructure to sell it of to corporations in us for example, they have bases literally everywhere -- only recently did the US get out of iceland, which is now falling apart economically in some major part due to american corporations.It's not him I fear, It's his ideology.
It's interesting to note that the Bush family came from the oil business.
If this is too political for this board (because of the NFP), then sorry.
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"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest."
Terrorism is a big lie. An enemy image to "keep us together".
"turn them one against another"
Thats exactly what is happening, but it's more turning the citizens on the whole against each other, and that's how you sustain a war, the corporations profit.
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"And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists."
To me, this was the pretext for the involvement of my country, and others. -___-
I'm happy to be labelled a terrorist, because I'm not with him.
It's hilarious to me.
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To me, patriotism is a way of seeing ones own country as above others.What does the word Patriotic mean to you?
Do you consider yourself patriotic? If so, in what way?
Is patriotism always a good thing? Why or why not?
Can someone be patriotic but still criticize aspects of their government? Why or why not?
People ask you, "which is the best country in the world?" and most people answer MINE IS.
If Patriotism means just wanting the best out of a country, then its ok.
But that can still lead to seeing yours as top notch.
I'm definitely not patriotic - I mean, I want the good for my country, but at the same time, my country has no more right to good living and so forth than does iraq, iran, syria, afghanistan, pakistan, russia, egypt, [any country on earth here].
Patriotism is scarcely a good thing, because it can be used as just one more thing to make you feel and see yourself as seperate to others. The bottom line is that everyone is a human being. We are all born naked.
Again it would depend what sort of patriot you are. To a lot of, for example, old school american conservatives (who consequently dont like the way conservatism has gone in america). Patriotism is just freedom, true freedom. To speak as you wish, to be free of corporate companies, to live in a secular society (as many of the important founding fathers wanted). If I try to think of an example of such a person I instantly think of TheAmazingAtheist on youtube.
To me though, the government should be criticised by a patriot. Patriotism doesn't mean you're on the side of the government, infact I would say it's the exact opposite. Patriotism is really just your ideals for your world or society. So patriot to me rejects government, because the governments of this world only do very little good for their people.
I find this a very interesting comment, and, all respect you for having that. But I'd appreciate if I can give my take on that, without flame wars coming from either side.Our soldiers for example demostrate their patriotism by their willingness to sacrifice of themselves for the greater benefit of the country
My mind turns to glue when I hear a statement like that. I cant get my mind past the fact that they are both illegal wars, and innocent people have been killed in the hundreds of thousands. Thats not patriotism, thats mass murder, and if you have to kill to uphold your societies ideals then there's obviously big flaws in our socieities. At the same time though, a lot of these soldiers dont understand what theyre getting themselves into ... training is different than killing many people every day. I think this is why a lot of soldiers end up with PTSD.
And here's one more thing ... what gives your country, or any country the right to benifit more than the other?for the greater benefit of the country
Patriotism isn't good, in the sense that it applies labels "American, Australian, Iraqi, English, Icelandic, etc". Labels which seperate us can never be good. Those labels allow people in their minds to be more O.K with killing or harming someone who isnt from their tribe. This becomes a major problem when you realise we're all one.
No, but that's what it's commonly understood to be, so it doesn't really matter what it really means. Much the same way that most people in the world believe Jesus Christs birthday is 25th December.And while we're at it, can I just state for the record that patriotism does not consist of "Americans (or whatever country you may be from) rock and you suck!" That is not patriotism.
If you disagree with anything I've said, please answer without slander.
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It hasn't always meant the same thing, though.Fair game -- they've been saying that since Christ died.
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Scripturally, what do -you- define as the "last days"?...WARNING THEM THAT THESE ARE THE LAST DAYS
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Here in the states, there are many professors and colleges that will not accept Wikipedia as a source for papers and essays. My daughter had a high school teacher that would not allow it to be used as well. Mainly for the fact that many things that are on wikipedia have been found to be inaccurate. You have to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt.
It really does depend on the article.
Some really do cite sources very accurately.
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Oh I know that blurb is utter nonsense.
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As far as I can tell it is. Someone else posted it too. :)
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Does anyone else feel strong emotions when they pray?
I nearly always cry, or feel ... "exceedingly joyful".
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"[Adam] took upon him an appropriate body" the body of a man, and so became a 'living soul.' . . . All who have inhabited the earth since Adam have taken bodies and become souls in like manner. . . . Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our Heavenly Father. True it is that the body of man enters upon its career as a tiny germ embryo, which becomes an infant, quickened at a certain stage by the spirit whose tabernacle it is, and the child, after being born, develops into a man. There is nothing in this, however, to indicate that the original man, the first of our race, began life as anything less than a man, or less than the human germ or embryo that becomes a man." (James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency 4:200-206.)
I would take from this that, the Church does not believe in Evolution, then?
[by the way, im not necesarily critical of that]
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Wikipedia is not neutral. Wikipedia is an open post what you would like. There is little that is verified.
Ben Raines
Uh, where'd you get that from it?
It is neutral, unless an article is marked as having "neutrality problems".
Basically, you verify an article is accurate, by looking at its sources.
If an article doesn't have any sources, then there is chance that its utter nonsense.
But by and large, Wikipedias articles are good.
I use it in just about every essay, or speech I need.
The arguement that it is useless "Free-for all posting" comes from the arguement that only scholar written encyclopedias should be trusted. To me that's utter nonsense, and my grades prove that.
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Thankyou all for your reassurance.
I actually tried to find the JoD online, but couldn't. Does anyone know where I can read it online?
I was disgusted at the the context the video has been uploaded to that persons account as.Hi Brenton. I realise that people use youtube like wikipedia...fastest growing first-hand information source. What was your gut feeling?
Off-topic; but I must add that wikipedia is by far the best encyclopedia you can get, because its neutral. And I've never got less than a top mark when using it for sources and so forth.
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I found a video on youtube, someone has reposted one of the mormon.org videos on youtube.
Happens to be from the person who really "did it" for me and got me interested in the Church, because her testimonies really connect with how I feel.
This is what's in the video description;
This is the end product of a Mormon Church brainwash job. The Mormon Church is the perfect cult. If you are a member, you are devoted and very loving and caring, your literature and doctrine is strictly controlled, it's wrong to criticize the church, the church tells you how to think, how to behave, how to dress (This is no lie-I was once criticized for wearing a blue shirt instead of a white one), the church dictates EVERYTHING to you, any issues you have is because of YOU not the church (I was told this too), you are shamed and felt guilty if you do not except a calling, you are afraid NOT to pay your tithing, you are repeating the mantra every fast Sunday (I know the chruch is true and repeat), you sing indoctrinating songs as a kid ("Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the prophet, he knows the way" and "I hope they call me on a mission", etc. etc.)
So after all the this brainwashing, you end up with a girl who says how you can tell the LDS church is true. It wasn't anything logical to ask her what she was thinking, she wasn't thinking, she was feeling. I can't believe the LDS church actually promotes this and people buy into it.
Do you notice how Mormons have to repeat, "I know it's true" over and over again. Fast and Testimony meetings is filled with the classic, "I know 'fill in the blank' is true." If something is repeated enough times, people believe it.
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Need it be said for starters that this person came to the Mormon church out of their own choice because they already had beliefs that she was shocked to find mormons believe?
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Also, can someone please justify some of the quotes I've seen in the comments? They've got me a little worried.
Brigham Young:
"...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289).
Brigham Young:
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269).
Thanks everyone. :)
Patriotism
in General Discussion
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