Brenton

More like the coroporate world that wanted the Iraq war, all the other things theyd tried with Saddam failed. He wasn't giving off his resources cheap enough for industries liking...

I'm not. It's a matter of speculation. Well I'm glad you understand science so well, fábjáni!! You're actually making some sense. Here's my distinction, and it's important socially - but mainly ignored at this time ... you have no right to tell someone what to believe.But you do have the right to tell someone what is EMPIRICALLY truthful. I'm not going to pretend to know the position or thought of the person that said that to you. But here's my take on that though, a dress is just a design. It's "okay" for a woman to wear pants, but its not okay for a man to wear a "dress" even though both things are just fabric. That, my friend is the biggest crock. Telling someone who to vote is not politically neutral, nor is it morally neutral. The LDS church claims to be morally correct, but politically neutral.I know you clearly take it as insulting the Church, but I really have a feeling it's got to do, deep down, with taxation issues. Otherwise the church wouldn't care, with all their talk of free agency for all.

There is no such thing as a smart person, an intellectual yes (person who understands correctly and works well with knowledge) such an example would be Dawkins. Truth is not told, it is realised. So youre comparing homosexuality to those things? How, errrmmm... "intelligent" of you.First of all, arson, theivery, "thuggery" and so on ... are not inbuilt. These things are almost always done by people with lower levels of education, who dont have much money etc. The average intellectual, scholar or other such person is MUCH less likely to do these things. It is the system of instutions by which our society runs by, which are outdated, are the causes of these problems. Politics, money, traditional famial values, "jobs", religion and other things are all things which do not solve problems but create more and lead to a less educated and understanding society, and they're the major basis for all our problems. Religion, is a superstitious thing (there's no getting away from that), and people are welcome to believe whatever they want, but isnt it an interesting thing to note that those with a higher education are statistically much, much MUCH less likely to believe in superstitious notions for the way the universe "goes"? I'm glad you can see the legal instutions are useless. Society, not knowing how to solve what they percieve as a "problem" make a law. How pathetic.This is the third time I've said this, but it needs to be said again and again. The LDS church is simply worried about another threat to it's not-for-profit status - should gay marriage become more nationalised.

try lulu?

I was being a little facetious, and was really too lazy to omit the Bestial marriage question.

If thats the case, then the public institutions shouldn't encourage the nuclear family either. You cannot have Health and Human Development (subject name in Australia) without talking about all the genders and all the different sorts of families. Chastity is no more natural than wearing clothing. Ofcourse. You're only told what youre supposed to know. Religion is taught in some schools, but not comparative religion. History is taught, but only how we want to tell it. etc Absolutely, I'm surprised Americans dont. Your constitution was designed to protect ALL the minorities. You are supposed to be living in a Constiutional Republic, but infact youre in a "democracy" now, like we all are. -sigh- People should be allowed to do whatever they want in the way of marriage. As long as it doesnt infringe on anyones rights (and being offended by certain marriages is not, a loss of a right). I watched the video on the newsroom and thats the saddest excuse for something ive ever heard. I think the Church is just worried they could lose their not-for-profit status if gay marriage became more nationally sanctioned. That's still not politically neutral because the Church is encouraging members how to vote. Intersting quote of you to use. Clearly if you read that carefully, Mr Paine is saying that we have no need for the divine law. And here, he is clearly stating that God has nothing whatever to do with human affairs. Paine was a deist. Nor do the straights. The collapse of society has nothing whatever to do with religion. It's the monetary system. That's what controls our lives. It's what keeps things scarce, and stops sustainable living, all so industry can profit etc. Religion is a burden to those who do not require it. I find it interesting that you put humans seperate to the animal kingdom. Humans are as much animal as a cat or a koala. Since there are many other gay animals, one can scientifically assume it is a genetic thing. That may be true, but are you honestly going to call a Christian lifestyle moral? Humans seek good just like any other animal, because we know were doomed if we cant get along.

If I could actually trust the stuff in the newspapers, then I'd believe that. ;pIt's pretty funny because, his plan is working perfectly if that's true because the american debt is going to be unaffordable in less than a decade and the whole world is going to become bankrupt in turn.

But the thing is, you dont have a right to enforce your morality on anyone. Religious morality really is a "thing for the home". If I were a religious person I would feelt that way. Religion has no right to infringe on the legal rights of others.

But kids should still be taught that there -are- gay people, and oh, that scientific knowledge seems to say that people are born that way (that has no bearing on religion though, because ive heard a few people say that genetics can make us sin).I really do think the existence of gay people is totally different from the existence of God. You can test, repeat and observe homosexuality. Heres the other problem, if children aren't educated about it, then they're going to have predjudice. It's interesting to note this I was -sure- the Church was politically neutral.

Any school that recieves government money from [what should be] a secular one, has every right to say homosexuality is acceptable.Or if not that, they shouldn't be allowed to condemn it. Condemning something to children, gives them the sense of everything being black and white (dark vs. light, good vs. evil). IF they do condemn it, the child should always be reminded that the bible doesnt justify violence against gay people (well, at least not the NT).

Oh ofcourse, its the lesbos that are your nations problem. *rolls eyes*Gay marriage should be legal. But I dont think they should be allowed to get married in churches ... I mean, why on earth would the majority of them WANT to in the first place? I'm thinking this. LDS church is against national recognisation of gay marriage because it would threaten it's non-profit status? And also, I guess it doesn't fit with the gospel principles of eternal families.

Ofcourse it happened, but the lie is the circumstances of the fact (for example: many of the supposed hijackers are still alive). The other lie of the of the circumstance is that terrorism is a big danger to the world. The US terrorist list has over 1 million people on it now.And "terrorist" is used by the govt for any who doesnt stick to the status quo, basically. Just let me say this. The North American Air Space Command failed 4 times on 9/11, they'd had full accuracy beforehand. It's just a little too strange that they didn't get fighter jets up in the air after the first tower was hit, or even after the second. It took about 80 or so minutes for NORAD to respond, its just unheard of, the only logical thing is that they were deliberately confused. "We will never forget, what a government did to its own people, to start a war." I just cannot believe that people dont see this, okay -- you have your right to say whatever you think, but I do too. We are given to believe that some guy in a cave, had NORAD stand down, the best air security in the world. This is just bull. THINK!The Bush family has had great ties with the Bin Laden family. Just months before 9/11 the cia was ordered to back off investigations on the bin laden family ... HELLO!?! The problem is, most of the "muslim hate" towards the west (which is very much not mainstream in muslim society, let me assure you) stems from the fact that the us insists on presence in middle eastern countries, and thats because the us is building an empire, and getting cheaper resources from it -- whether its the world bank insisting on the privatisation of foreign infrastructure to sell it of to corporations in us for example, they have bases literally everywhere -- only recently did the US get out of iceland, which is now falling apart economically in some major part due to american corporations.It's interesting to note that the Bush family came from the oil business. If this is too political for this board (because of the NFP), then sorry.

"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest." Terrorism is a big lie. An enemy image to "keep us together". "turn them one against another" Thats exactly what is happening, but it's more turning the citizens on the whole against each other, and that's how you sustain a war, the corporations profit.

"And GW said, "If your not with us, your with the terrorists." To me, this was the pretext for the involvement of my country, and others. -___- I'm happy to be labelled a terrorist, because I'm not with him. It's hilarious to me.

To me, patriotism is a way of seeing ones own country as above others.People ask you, "which is the best country in the world?" and most people answer MINE IS. If Patriotism means just wanting the best out of a country, then its ok. But that can still lead to seeing yours as top notch. I'm definitely not patriotic - I mean, I want the good for my country, but at the same time, my country has no more right to good living and so forth than does iraq, iran, syria, afghanistan, pakistan, russia, egypt, [any country on earth here]. Patriotism is scarcely a good thing, because it can be used as just one more thing to make you feel and see yourself as seperate to others. The bottom line is that everyone is a human being. We are all born naked. Again it would depend what sort of patriot you are. To a lot of, for example, old school american conservatives (who consequently dont like the way conservatism has gone in america). Patriotism is just freedom, true freedom. To speak as you wish, to be free of corporate companies, to live in a secular society (as many of the important founding fathers wanted). If I try to think of an example of such a person I instantly think of TheAmazingAtheist on youtube. To me though, the government should be criticised by a patriot. Patriotism doesn't mean you're on the side of the government, infact I would say it's the exact opposite. Patriotism is really just your ideals for your world or society. So patriot to me rejects government, because the governments of this world only do very little good for their people. I find this a very interesting comment, and, all respect you for having that. But I'd appreciate if I can give my take on that, without flame wars coming from either side.My mind turns to glue when I hear a statement like that. I cant get my mind past the fact that they are both illegal wars, and innocent people have been killed in the hundreds of thousands. Thats not patriotism, thats mass murder, and if you have to kill to uphold your societies ideals then there's obviously big flaws in our socieities. At the same time though, a lot of these soldiers dont understand what theyre getting themselves into ... training is different than killing many people every day. I think this is why a lot of soldiers end up with PTSD. And here's one more thing ... what gives your country, or any country the right to benifit more than the other?Patriotism isn't good, in the sense that it applies labels "American, Australian, Iraqi, English, Icelandic, etc". Labels which seperate us can never be good. Those labels allow people in their minds to be more O.K with killing or harming someone who isnt from their tribe. This becomes a major problem when you realise we're all one. No, but that's what it's commonly understood to be, so it doesn't really matter what it really means. Much the same way that most people in the world believe Jesus Christs birthday is 25th December.If you disagree with anything I've said, please answer without slander.