applecore
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Posts posted by applecore
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The commandments we are to keep are all the commandments of God. This includes the Ten Commandments, the commandments from Christ, we are to keep all covenants we make with the Lord, and any new commandments given through prophets of God such as the word of wisdom. Read and study the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and General Conference addresses and you will know what commandments you are to keep.
if i'm not mistaken the intro to the section on "word of wisdom" says specifically NOT by way of COMMANDMENT but by the word of wisdom. sometimes we group things together that weren't meant to be. sometimes we put our own spin and interpretation on things by mistake. if new commandments are reveiled that don't jive with the rest of the scriptures i'd think twice about the validity of them.</span>
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I have the Community of Christ's (RLDS) Inspired Version of the Bible.
Can you tell me more about that version?
Thank you,
Dr. T
Joseph finished it around 1833 or so but it was never printed in his lifetime. When Joseph was killed Brigham tried to get it from Emma but she wouldn't let him have it. She maintained possession of it until 1865 when she gave it to her son Joseph 3rd for the Reorganized Church to print.
A lot of what is added in the Inspired version is contained in the Book of Moses in the PoP. Interesting though the part where God is talking to Enoch and Noah (the everlasting covenant that God made with them) was left out of the PoP. Maybe so it would be easier to sell the New Everlasting Covenant in section 132. Of course I Believe Brigham Young was the author of 132 not Joseph. I don't know where the statement he never finished came from. It is well documented that Joseph stated the "translation" was finished.
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Hey applecore,
Are you part of the restoration movement in the RLDS or are you of the more progressive CofC branch (in favour of Stephen Veazey as President)?
Just curious.
M.
There are several clarifications I have to make to answer that correctly. I am CofC but that's just the new name for RLDS. There is a fundamental part of the church that doesn't accept the leadership of the church. They are the one's that typically use the designation RLDS. As for supporting Steve, I do in hopes that he will bring us back to a closer alignment with the restoration values.
Actually I was a part of the Buckner congregation that started the whole separation process. I was 1 of 3 that stayed with the church. The other 350 left. I try to apply the scriptures as I understand them. Which makes me a thorn in the side to the church and the "RLDS'. It drives my wife crazy. But I have to do what I feel is right or I'm not being honest with myself or God. Thanks for asking
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IMO there will never be an acceptance by the evangelical community as long as those of us in the restoration movement embrace the Book of Mormon. Unfortunantly, in my church our leadership (not the majority) have put the BofM out to pasture. The reason for the existence of the church in the beginning has been trashed because there is no "proof".
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN TO YOU. We are suffering because of our lack of faith. How can God give us more if we don't accept what He's given us already. Just my thoughts We are different. We're not mainstream because we ARE different. We're supposed to be.
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Originally posted by applecore@Nov 22 2005, 09:25 AM
It seems everyone is trying to justify salvation and works as part of or not part of the same thing. IMO it's really quite simple and satisfies all requirements for both. It even brings the scriptures into agreement.
Jesus talks about being judged according to our works. The book of Revelation makes the same statement. James says the same thing. Paul on the other hand gets hung up on grace. From Paul's perspective, he became aware of the grace of God on the road where Jesus appeared and changed his life. Paul knew what his fate would have been without God's grace, so he makes that a main emphasis of his ministry.
But they are compatible. Salvation IS by the grace of God and there is nothing we can do to add to or take away from it. Works on the other hand has to do with reward in the here-after, not salvation. Jesus ministry was focused on doing (works). All of the parables have to do with works, you can't just ignore that. Jesus said if you do these things you shall in no wise loose your reward. What are the mansions He went to prepare? Rewards?
If the information Joseph Smith Jr gave us about the glories is true, then all are saved (except the sons of perdition) from the second death, but are rewarded according to their works (hence the different glories). If you check all the references on salvation, grace,works,rewards,etc and apply them with this understanding, it all agrees and makes sense.
There are multiple statements regarding "saved by". We're saved by grace, by faith, by believing, by works, by baptism, etc. You can't just pick and choose which one you prefer. IMO all are important. You have to understand who the writer was addressing and in what context he was speaking. Was it a non-believer or someone who was new in the church and needed more instruction or what? The different requirements aren't inconsistent if you have that background.
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Ya'll are making this much more complicated than it is . I'll post later
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Sorry, I missed the point you were trying to make. You quoted multiple scriptures but please condense it so I can understand. What's the bottom line?Originally posted by Serg@Nov 16 2005, 12:20 PM
Paul wanted to talk about this so here you go. This is about salvation viewed by lds theology, which in extract, says that in the Bible is taught that salvation comes through faith, and faith through works. This i quote from a post of mine, concerning Maureen's thoughts about salvation:
The act of confessing the Lord, does it save??? Its said: (Romans 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Now, it is a beautiful scripture but, do we understand it as we should? Lets see this: (Romans 10:16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (Romans 10:17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Oh! so now it includes “obeying”, and this through FAITH, which comes from the very Word. The same Paul that also said: (1 Corinthians 7:19) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. Now as to confess: (Hebrews 13:15) By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. (Hebrews 13:16) But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. (Hebrews 13:17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls...
Again : (2 John 1:7) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (2 John 1:8) Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
And again: (1 John 3:23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.(1 John 4:14) And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:15) Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
* So as we see, confessing the Lord’s name is to praise HIM, to obey HIM and to PROCLAIM HIM as our King and Saviour. There’s nothing bad with “confessing Jesus as our personal Saviour” , what is deceiving is to believe that by only that we are saved.
Jesus said: (Matthew 23:2) “ The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (Matthew 23:3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” This for those who say we have no similar law or any law at all, as Paul said: (1 Corinthians 9:20) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (1 Corinthians 9:21) To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. So what is it, FAITH OR WORKS that saves?
(Hebrews 11:33) Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,... So in some way, righteousness comes TROUGH FAITH but is WROUGHT also, how? why? Cause “FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”. The only way to give something, is having it. The only way to let know you have something is by someway SHOWING IT. For also is said: (2 Corinthians 8:12) “For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.”
Please watch this : (2 Timothy 1:9) Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (2 Timothy 1:10) But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:” Wow, this is Paul. Note quickly that says that He SAVED us(in past) and now relate that part with the part later saying Jesus’s grace before the world began, and that one with Peter’s and John’s saying of Christ as the Lamb sacrified before the world was... And now see this, does it say that we are NOT saved by works? No, closely says that our CALLING was not by works, this means, the oportunity, the possibility, the effort of God himself to save us is NOT by our works for he died for ALL, whether sinner or righteous, BUT the “life and immortality to light” was brought TROUGH the GOSPEL, as Peter said : (1 Peter 1:22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: so there’s no much to say, letalone what the 5th verse says: (1 Peter 1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
So His call is by grace and even the salvation in the last time to be revealed but it requires obedience, why? Cause it requires a NEW person, as also said: (1 Peter 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So the hope comes from the faith, and the obidience too, and these take us to be participants of the glory of God, not His grace, for if it were by works, then its not by grace, but its by grace, so God can be all in all.
As Paul also said: (Ephesians 2:8) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (1 John 5:3)
Oh! So by grace we in fact are saved, yes, not of ourselves, for NONE of us deserved His sacrifice, but its given the opportunity to all, and saved by FAITH, which one? That which has works, that which WALKS IN THE GOOD WORKS GOD ORDAINED BEFORE. But there is also the conclusion of all this said here: (1 Corinthians 13:13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity(love).
(1 John 5:1) “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. (1 John 5:2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. (1 John 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (1 John 5:4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” .
To live with God, we ought to be like Him....(and it does’nt come through the statement of a sentence, LOL)
“Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of His steps.”(Psalms 85:13)
Best regards,
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There is so many references in the Book of Mormon to the greater records coming forth but only after we have had our faith tested. The Lord says He will try our faith first before we are given more. What about the Ark of the Covenant? It's somewhere. I believe the Lord has protected all these things and more and will bring them forth to the convincing of Jew and Gentile the He is the Savior, the Christ, the Creator. We live in a glorious time and He will make bare His Holy arm in the eyes of all nations. WOW I can hardly wait.
See it wasn't that bad now was it? Thanks for letting me share that with you.
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Fifth Ether 3:27,28 and 4:2-7 Moroni is telling us about the things that the Bro of Jared wrote and sealed up. Read this part carefully. Then the Lord speaks thru Moroni to us and in vs 6,7 he is pleading with us to repent and come clean before him so he can reveal the greater things to us.
Sixth Genesis 13:13 IV The Lord is speaking to Abraham and says He will remember the covenant which He made with him; for it shall be an everlasting covenant and Abraham shall remember the days of Enoch thy father. Well, Enoch wasn't Abraham's father, Terah was. So the Lord is telling Abraham to remember the covenant that was made to Enoch, his ancestor.
Seventh Genesis 9:21-25 IV The Lord is covenanting with Noah after the flood and calls it an everlasting covenant, the same that was made with Enoch. When thy posterity shall embrace the truth, they have to know what the truth is first, don't they? In Genesis 7:67-70 it is speaking of the end time. Vs 70 And righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood. Sudden, unexpected, can't stop it even if you tried. What is this sudden thing. I believe a big part of it will be the library that Mormon hid up in cumorah. You see, the brass plates are there. The same ones taken from Jerusalem. Don't you think that will speak directly to the Jews? We're told that other records will come forth unto the convincing of Jew and Gentile. The Book of Mormon is a wonderful scripture but it is a book of faith. The original records will be the convincing.
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OK, you all need to think outside of the box. IMO it has nothing to do with "the law' or temple rights or blessings or any stuff like that. It's much bigger than that. It has everything to do with the restoration (not mormonism) and the Book of Mormon.
Now that I have your attention ( and anger), come on, open your mind and go with me a while. You can have it back when I'm done, OK?
First clue In 3 nephi 20:21,22 Jesus very specifically ties "fulfilling of the covenant" with the New Jerusalem. We all know the New Jerusalem is Zion, right?
Second clue 3 nephi 20:33-35,39 Jesus continues and in vs 35 makes a statement that should make you tingle. He will make bare His holy arm in the eyes of all nations. That means all the nations will be aware of what He is doing and all the earth will see. It will be done in full view of the whole earth whatever it is. There will be no mistake where it comes from.
Third 1 nephi 22:7-12 Nephi reads the Brass Plates and interprets what he read. In vs 7 he speaks of a mighty nation among the gentiles that God raises up (USA) and in vs 10 again it is mentioned that the earth cannot be blessed unless he shall make bare his holy arm in the eyes of all nations, Hmmmmm.
Forth 1 nephi 15:12-19 Nephi is teaching his brothers. Vs 13,14 he mentions that the gospel will come from the gentiles to his seed. He further says in vs 14 that his seed shall KNOW they are of the house of Israel. Not think, KNOW
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Community of Christ/RLDS I'm friendly to all restoration groups even if their teachings are different from Joseph Smith's. We'll all be together some day when the Nephite library is found. Hope it's soon
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I'll have to wait till tomorrow to give my references. All I have is the RLDS version of the BofM. I have the conversion chapter and verse at home. I'm at the fire station today and won't get off till 0700 hrs. Then I have to work construction. Soooo tomorrow evening I'll try to respond. By the way, if you want to check out what we're doing in Mexico you might visit www.hillcumorahexpeditionteam.com
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Sorry, I can't handle the one I have. By the way, that wasn't part of the covenant IMO. Been married 35 yrs. with 4 children. Kevin Brown is one of them. He was the one that was lead to find the Proclamation Tablet last year at Hill Cumorah.
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This is my first post so it may be goofy but here goes. In 3 Nephi the Savior speaks multiple times about He has come to fulfill the conenant He made with the children of Israel and again the promises He made with their fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He repeats it several times but never says what that covenant is. I've done some study on it and I think I know what He's refering to. I had to use references from the Book of Mormon and the Inspired Version of the Bible (yes, I'm RLDS- Community of Christ). I just wanted to see if there were any other thoughts out there. If this receives any response, I'll share my conclusions with references if any one's interested]. Thanks for letting me post
I Want To Learn About Lds
in General Discussion
Posted
Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”
I love this quote. Please give me the reference as to where I can find it. I need it to make a point for some people in my church. PM me if you want. Thanks :) :)