Can anyone tell me if this is true?

[Elrond]

Hello. First of all I am not an LDS member but am a Christian. I do have LDS friends and have defendfed them on other christian forums when people become intolerant. I was born again in 1985 and attended several fundamentalist and other types of Christian churches. I presently have not been to a church in 2 years. I keep my faith and fellowship online and with the few friends and the family I have.

Yesterday morning I woke up very early and was depressed. I could not sleep. I began to clean the house while my wife and 2 sons were sleeping. Then this revelation came to my mind. The reason I joined and am posting this here is because I posted it to a few groups I'm on and one reply said "I certainly never knew so much about Mormonism before now..."

I have read some of the Book of Mormon and as I said I have had Mormon friends. Is the following or any part of the following agreeable with Mormon teaching? If it is then it came as a direct revelation and not by anything anyone told me. I haven't read from the BoM in over 6 years and I haven't even picked up my Bible to read in a 2 or 3 weeks.

Anyways, here is what I wrote yesterday. Can anyone tell me if it is LDS teaching or if parts of it are?

"No God? Yes there is!

4:30 am, 12/03/08

We are God. We are all God, together.

Jesus realized this and was able to have the ultimate power and influence.

We all were with God in the beginning. Every living soul was a part of God.

We all created the heavens and the earth. This is why in Genesis 1 it states “God said, let us make….” The “us” does not refer to the so called trinity as most Christians believe. It refers to all of us that were with God and a part of God: collectively God.

Jesus said in John 14 “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but by me.” Was he referring to himself or was this a statement anyone could make if they realized they were God? Jesus also stated that people should not look for the kingdom of God in other places because the “kingdom of God is within you.” God was already there because we were always a part of God. God had said in Genesis “let us make man in our image.” Scripture confirms scripture.

When we were all together as one the whole universe was created. It was perfect, or “good.” It soon became imperfect. Why? The answer is simple. God was suddenly incomplete. God had given parts of himself as life forms. God scattered himself throughout the universe that had been created. Because God (as all of us) wanted each individual to have free will, people explored both good and evil. But the Bible also says God creates both the good and the evil.

The universe deteriorates only because God is incomplete at present and since the first life forms were created apart from the collective of God. Stars burn out, things get sick, life forms die.

Jesus said that no one knows the day or hour the world would end. Not even he claimed to know. He stated only the Father in heaven knew. Why? Again a very simple answer.

The end of the world will not be known until every living soul has been born. The “Father” is simply that collective entity in another dimension that consists of the souls energy of all sentient beings. The father is incomplete in that dimension since he only consists of all beings that have been born and have died, and all beings yet to be born.

There is also the phenomenon of reincarnation: spirits that may have lived then returned to the godhead and were reborn again as physical life forms. At present there are at least 6 billion sentient life forms on earth and who knows how many on other worlds. This makes the godhead incomplete in its dimension.

In Revelation it states a time comes when God says there shall be time no longer. This will be after every soul has been born and no more are to be born. All parts of God will have been cycled through the ages of “time.” Then only will the world end and the reason only the Father knows is because no one else can possibly know until that last soul is born and God becomes complete.

We are all God because Jesus revealed this to us. Few seem to get it. Idolatry is so bad because idolatry is looking for God in something else besides yourself. Even a cross or an image of Jesus can be idolatry, because Jesus said “look within.”

Jesus also said if you believe and do not doubt you can have whatsoever you say. That’s in Mark 11. Jesus performed miracles because he knew he was God and God was him. “I and my Father are one.” He said. I can say the same. So can you, but we must realize the truth for it to have any value at all. Jesus realized the truth and went to the full extreme, even giving his life for the entire creation.

Now who is Satan? Satan is also (unfortunately) a part of us. He can be “cast out” by us (God) if we believe and exercise that power. Satan exists because people allowed him to exist, and this was due to free will. Some say he is a fallen angel and that is just as true for we created the angels to watch over us. We also gave them the free will just as we have. Then we thought we could entertain each other.

I could get mad at God for making Satan but then I would have to be mad at myself and my wife, and my kids, and my friends because we all created him in the first place.

Now you might be able to see why 2 different churches, both claiming to be the true church can have their members prayers answered, even when those prayers might be against the other church. How can God be in both if they are in so much conflict? Because God is in every member because every member was and is a part of the original godhead before the beginning of time. The problem is the people just do not understand and they are looking at external gods and external enemies. Both God and the enemy is ourself because we are all God.

“I am the beginning and the end” Jesus stated. What he wanted us to figure out was that we all are. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Yes, me. And you.

Question is, do you realize it?

Why are evil religions or evil doctrines within religions like the Islamic concept of killing infidels to obtain glory? Because they are looking at an outside god, not within themselves. Groups of people can collectively create an energy that becomes a false god. That god doesn’t even exist. It is a projection of men’s minds. When the real godhead becomes complete in its dimension this will all be realized. False gods will dissolve away because all will realize these false gods never existed and those who made them were quite foolish to do so.

How did Moses hear the voice of God, see the burning bush, and receive instructions from God. All these answers are so simple. Moses was so passionate about knowing if God existed that the God part of his soul projected itself as God and manifest these things. I’ve done this too. I’ve been so curious and passionate about knowing whether certain entities existed that I projected them into the reality of my dimension, or in a few cases I entered another dimension. Are the beings real? Of course they are. I am God, a part of God so I made them and if they are out there somewhere I can find them if I seek diligently. “Seek and ye shall find” Jesus said. Again the truth is confirmed.

Before anyone accuses me of blasphemy, let’s look at the “I AM” scriptures. God told Moses when Moses asked what Gods name was “I AM THAT I AM.” Of course he did! Moses was projecting it from the primordial recesses of his soul because God can only say “I AM.” We can all say it. Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Not he was, but I am. I will also say that before Abraham was I am. You can say before Abraham was I am (you are.) You must keep it present tense, not I was, or you were… but I AM, because we are talking about a dimension outside of time and an existence in the collective that is called God! I am because I have always been. My physical body was not, but my soul, my spirit, my elevated consciousness has always been, and so has yours!

I know the original Buddha realized much of this because Buddhism teaches much of the inner workings of the soul. And, Jesus quoted Buddha so the guy must not have been too far off.

What about “hell.” It’s the destruction of the bodies and mortal consciousness of people who used free will to basically be idiots. Or create evil because they were in love with evil. And, those who never seek forgiveness or feel sorry for their actions. But, their spirits will still go back to the godhead in the end. Now we might get a glimpse at why Jesus said love your enemies because no matter what you will be reunited with at least their spirit when you return to the godhead. I’ve done things deserving of hell. I have also asked forgiveness, and recently I sought that forgiveness within myself. It was kind of different from asking an external God for forgiveness. No wonder that never worked too well!

Yes, I received Jesus Christ as my savior 24 years ago. I did it kind of the traditional way, but I was alone and “he” spoke to me and said come to me. That was cool because he was really already there and all he was doing was revealing the true nature of the godhead to me by getting me to realize God was already a part of me. In other words I didn’t have Jesus implanted into me by some preacher man with a bunch of big words and lofty sinners prayers in front of a whole church. Thank God! (That means all of you, by the way!)

There is a duality and God made it (we all made it) because it exists and it had to be manifest. The dark or evil parts of that duality are there to show the good parts. I cannot explain it (Sure I can, for I am God). The duality shows individual sentient beings the difference between good and evil. Since we all knew both good and evil we knew the evil wasn’t good but we had to make that stupid tree and then let our own curiosity get the best (or rather the worst) of us. But, the reason Adam and Eve didn’t immediately run over the tree of life or else eat that fruit first to protect from the other was because they knew they were God and they were the firstborn. The serpent said “God knows ye shall be as Gods” if you eat it. Of course! Everyone knew that. But, only good was in Adam and Eve at the time but sure enough it didn’t take long to want to see more. They looked at external things instead of within.

Finally, this trinity thing is kind of silly. The Father is all of us and a collective entity of spirits. The Holy spirit is a feminine thing that binds all of us in all dimensions all together. Jesus (the son) was always God, always a part of God, and was a guy who lived on earth and was crucified by people were complete idiots but who actually fed right into the game plan. (And, yes, they too are God – for God gave his only begotten son…) Really the only reason Jesus Christ the Messiah, the anointed one is so elevated is because he is the only person who ever fully realized everything I just wrote plus never committed sin and never went against the original intent of the godhead that existed before creation.

Anyways, that was the revelation I had at 4:30 this morning and it lasted about an hour. I got most of the details here I hope. I am going by memory but I really don’t have to. It’s easy to remember what is already a part of you because I am. You are. We always have been.

Now, how do we tell almost every single Christian church that they are quite off in their teachings?

(Personally I don’t want to go there…. It’s enough to just know the truth and savor the moment for now, and share with a few friends.)

Oh, and usually after such a revelation I will ask several requests or prayers…. They are usually all answered, or at least one will be within a very short time. 90 minutes for the first answer, but the details are private."

[Nappaljarri]

Hello Elrond,

Here goes, I'll respond to each sentence you have written.

//We are God. We are all God, together.//

Our church doctrine goes as far as to say that we are spirit children of God and can become like and as him if we obey his doctrine/law and accept his son's atonement through repentence and partaking of the covenants and ordinances found in our church. Other church teachings that are not considered "doctrine" but go along with the above teachings are that we are "gods in embyo", and "as man is God once was and as God is man may become."

//Jesus realized this and was able to have the ultimate power and influence.//

There is one difference between us and Jesus. Jesus has God as his spiritual father as well as his physical father. We on the other hand have God as just our spiritual father and an earthly man as our physical father. As for realising who he was and his power, we believe that.

//We all were with God in the beginning. Every living soul was a part of God.//

According to the teachings of our church, we did live with God in beginning before we were born into this mortal realm. And kind of like you said (part of God), we were God's children, and in that sense, yes we are part of God, and on this earth we are commanded to become "one with the Holy Ghost, Christ and Him."

//We all created the heavens and the earth.//

If one partakes of all the covenants in our church and goes through the temple, then it becomes pretty clear that we also helped in the creation of this earth. It is not plainly stated this piece of info, and it is not a taught doctrine of the church in public forums, but I have recieved it through personal revelation.

//This is why in Genesis 1 it states “God said, let us make….” The “us” does not refer to the so called trinity as most Christians believe. It refers to all of us that were with God and a part of God: collectively God.//

I concur with this idea. But once again it is not taught at our churches in our classes. But is also not unplausable in the circumference of our church doctrine.

J//esus said in John 14 “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but by me.” Was he referring to himself or was this a statement anyone could make if they realized they were God? //

a) Christ was referring to himself, in that he is the only person whom any other human being could accept his sacrifce as the atonement and repent through his name and come unto the the Father. Christ is known as our advocate with the Father, if it were not for Christ's sacrifice, none of us would be able to come back into the presence of God and live with him forever.

b) In a way it is correct. For in our scripture (John: 17) Christ's intercessory prayer, he asks God to bless "them" (which are all those who come unto Christ and become perfected in him) that they may become "one" with Christ and God and the Holy Ghost. If a person were to become one with God, is that the same as saying "become the same as God?". Also our baptismal covenant we promise to "take upon us the name of Christ." if you take his name upon you, does that mean you become him? The same as become one with him. It is all symbolic. The sacrament that we partake of each Sunday is a symbol of his body and blood and we partake of it, so that our bodies are changed to become "him" more pure and undefiled, until one day we look in the mirror and we look like him, because we have become so much like him. This is the process which we are commanded to embark upon.

//Jesus also stated that people should not look for the kingdom of God in other places because the “kingdom of God is within you.”//

We believe that the Kingdom of God consists of the priestood authority and the church set up to officiate the ordinances of God to his children on the earth, coupled with willing children of his who partake of these ordinances and covenants and are obedient to his law. So in a sense yes, the kingdom of God is not found in physical things, but in God's law obeyed by each of his children (who so choose to embark on the path to come back into his presence).

// God was already there because we were always a part of God. God had said in Genesis “let us make man in our image.” Scripture confirms scripture. When we were all together as one the whole universe was created. It was perfect, or “good.” It soon became imperfect. Why? The answer is simple. God was suddenly incomplete. God had given parts of himself as life forms. God scattered himself throughout the universe that had been created. Because God (as all of us) wanted each individual to have free will, people explored both good and evil.//

This idea is nearly correct. God will always be perfect and complete without us, he is perfect and alpowerful and allknowing etc. He had children whom he wanted to become like him as well (for that is the pattern of the universe), but for them to become like him they needed to "choose" to become like and as him. For this purpose, we had to choose first to come to this earth. We believe and as taught in our church that Satan did not want to follow this plan and took numerous hosts of heaven with him to follow him. Satan believed in perfection by force, but this is never possible as you would understand experimenting on a child on earth (you can not make them be good, or intelligent, or wise, they need to choose their path). So God placed us on this earth and Satan is also allowed on this earth to tempt us and to try and draw us away from God's law. God allowed this to happen, else we would not be able to make a choice to follow him (it would have been a "given") see 2Nephi: 2.

I'm going to continue this post... soon....

[BenRaines]

I would say we are all a part of God as my children are a part of me. Half of their being comes from me and half from their mother. Other than that I am a part of God in my desire to fulfill his wishes.

I do like your post. Hope you continue posting.

Ben Raines

[Elrond]

Thanks for the answer and I completely understand why you would have to continue your post soon. There's a lot to cover!

I only take issue with one thing... the rest seems like we kind of agree to some extent more or less.

This is the thing:

"We believe that the Kingdom of God consists of the priestood authority and the church set up to officiate the ordinances of God to his children on the earth, coupled with willing children of his who partake of these ordinances and covenants and are obedient to his law. So in a sense yes, the kingdom of God is not found in physical things, but in God's law obeyed by each of his children (who so choose to embark on the path to come back into his presence)."

I do know God sets up priests but the New Testement says we are all kings and priests with Christ. I cannot speak for LDS because I have never set foot inside their temple (though I may some day).

I have seen priests and pastors, preachers and evangelists sorely abuse the Word of God and the flock of God. I have also seen some that are pretty nice and humble and just care about serving people which is what Jesus would want.

Again, this was ONLY in fundamentalist Evangelical or other varied Christian churches and NOT LDS.

[rameumptom]

In the Book of Abraham (Pearl of Great Price), we find that all of us were spirit children of God. He assigned us duties in preparation for this earth life, including the creation of this earth.

Among the spirit children of God were some that were very faithful and righteous. They were among the noble ones, which included Abraham. Many of God's spirit children had become so faithful as to achieve a divine status in the premortal existence. These faithful would have included our eldest brother, Jesus Christ.

Our Heavenly Father's goal for each of us is to come here to be tested and have our faith tried. If we pass the test, we will, through Christ's atonement, become purified and sanctified to a level of purity that allows us to be divine as Jesus is. We can enter into a divine relationship with God, similar to the relationship the Father, Son and Holy Ghost have. And in entering into such a relationship with the Godhead, we also become divine.

Adam and Eve were divine before coming here. They needed a period of time after the Fall, to repent, in order to reestablish that divinity and be able to enter into God's presence through Christ's atonement. This is true for all of us, as we fall through sin, needing to reestablish our divine role as children of God by embracing Christ's atonement and example.

In this divinity, we become of one mind, heart, will, and desire with the Godhead. The only thing that will separate us from them is our physical-spiritual resurrected bodies. While separate beings, we shall be alike in all other ways, IF we embrace the fulness of Christ's promises and covenants.

LDS believe these promises are made through the LDS Church. The covenants, priesthoods, and powers to become divine again are restored to the Earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Those keys and powers are maintained by living prophets and apostles today, and offered to anyone who is willing to embrace the fulness of the gospel.

We all can become kings and priests unto God through Christ (Rev 1:6), but it requires being anointed and ordained as with priests of old time. God has shown the pattern in Biblical times. The ordinations and works mentioned are done today in the LDS Church's temples, where we receive ordination and anointing just for that purpose of establishing a divine link between God and us. Of course, it is all dependent upon our becoming and staying worthy through obedience to Christ.

Edited December 5, 2008 by rameumptom

[Abraham]

Hi,

Though I can stretch my LDS beliefs and put my mind around your quote, it feels more New Agey to me and that makes me hesitant to try and rationalize it under the umbrella of the Lord's true Church - as it is a slippery slope to embracing other gray truths.

God is already perfect for example, and is not growing in experience, knowledge, intelligence, or wisdom. He is not surprised by any action by man as he knows all things and that means the end from the beginning.

However, your religious cultural rearing lends to those truths which sound logical. There are too many errors in your quote that I personally cannot accept. At the same time I accept you as a brother, and love you for your defense of your brothers and sisters (us).

We fully respect and embrace your priveldge to worthip the God of your choice - as you do ours. See Josh 24 in regard to 'other gods', especially vers 15 the most misquoted verse in all of scripture.

May the Lord bless you!

Abraham

[HiJolly]

Thanks for the answer and I completely understand why you would have to continue your post soon. There's a lot to cover!

You ain't kidding. What a huge post! As I read through it, I saw much truth, though some of it is hidden from the public and is a 'mystery' which can only be taught by personal revelation, even in the Mormon Church. We don't publicly discuss the mysteries, unless we want God to stop speaking to us.

"The Lord has taught me many things, and He would teach me many

more things if I could just learn to keep my mouth shut."

-- J. Reuben Clark, Mormon apostle

I agree with Abraham, it does sound like some of it is 'new age', as if you'd been listening to Eckhart Tolle or something. Not that he's necessarily wrong (though I do think he is, on certain things), but New Age teachings are pretty much avoided in the Church. Joseph Smith's King Follett sermon contains much related to what you say about us being God, etc. but it is not 'doctrine' per se.

Then again, we Mormons accept a lot of things that are not strictly 'doctrine', much to the confusion of other Christians. Just ask Ceeboo.

I also got the impression that you might get some value in studying Kabbalah -- say, if you were to read Lon Milo DuQuette's "The Chicken Qabalah of Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford - (A new improved Qabalistic text of great cynicism and wisdom written expressly for dilettantes with really short attention spans who pretentiously consider themselves Hermetic Qabalists but who are nonetheless serious about utilizing a tiny portion of the Hebrew Qabala for spiritual enlightenment"). DuQuette has a fun sense of humor (as you can see) whom I believe really knows something important, spiritually speaking. I would also suggest you might enjoy reading from the Mormon Mystic Yahoo groups. They get a little roudy but it is plump with fascinating discussion.

I only take issue with one thing... the rest seems like we kind of agree to some extent more or less.

This is the thing:

"We believe that the Kingdom of God consists of the priestood authority and the church set up to officiate the ordinances of God to his children on the earth, coupled with willing children of his who partake of these ordinances and covenants and are obedient to his law. So in a sense yes, the kingdom of God is not found in physical things, but in God's law obeyed by each of his children (who so choose to embark on the path to come back into his presence)."

I do know God sets up priests but the New Testement says we are all kings and priests with Christ. I cannot speak for LDS because I have never set foot inside their temple (though I may some day).

I have seen priests and pastors, preachers and evangelists sorely abuse the Word of God and the flock of God. I have also seen some that are pretty nice and humble and just care about serving people which is what Jesus would want.

Again, this was ONLY in fundamentalist Evangelical or other varied Christian churches and NOT LDS.

We (The Mormons) have that problem, too, as does every institution in mortality. The only 'Church' I know of that does not have this problem is the Church of the Firstborn. And it's a special case.

Doctrine and Covenants 121

This IS doctrine:

34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?

35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.

45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.

46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.

HiJolly

[Elrond]

You ain't kidding. What a huge post! As I read through it, I saw much truth, though some of it is hidden from the public and is a 'mystery' which can only be taught by personal revelation, even in the Mormon Church. We don't publicly discuss the mysteries, unless we want God to stop speaking to us.

I wonder if that is why it seems after some revelatations I will write them down, then publicise them (for the past several years online and in the past on paper) - then it seems I won't get any revelation at all for several months or even years.... except little things.

Would some of this be mysteries that should be kept private? I only received one revelation back in 1994 that I was specifically told to keep it secret for a few years. I can now talk about it however.

[rameumptom]

In our Church, personal revelation is just that, personal. We are to use it for ourselves, in order to benefit ourselves. Revelation that affects the Church or world is reserved to the presiding prophet, the President of the LDS Church.

While I may receive a correct revelation, if the prophet has not taught it, it is to be kept to myself. Too many people try to run faster than the Lord wishes us to do, for many reasons, usually because most members/people are not ready for the revelation. God will enlighten those who are ready, but the implementation for the world must go through his presiding prophet. This also ensures that false doctrine does not find its way into the Church, as the doctrines of the Church must be prayerfully considered and revealed through our living and presiding prophet and apostles.

Finally, we are taught that special personal revelation should only be shared if the Lord reveals to us which specific people we should share it with. While the Lord may say you can share it, that does not mean it should be shared with everyone. Jesus warned us about casting our pearls to the swine. When we don't treat our revelations in a sacred and special way, then they become casual, and the Lord stops revealing new things to us.

[Elrond]

In our Church, personal revelation is just that, personal. We are to use it for ourselves, in order to benefit ourselves. Revelation that affects the Church or world is reserved to the presiding prophet, the President of the LDS Church.

While I may receive a correct revelation, if the prophet has not taught it, it is to be kept to myself. Too many people try to run faster than the Lord wishes us to do, for many reasons, usually because most members/people are not ready for the revelation. God will enlighten those who are ready, but the implementation for the world must go through his presiding prophet. This also ensures that false doctrine does not find its way into the Church, as the doctrines of the Church must be prayerfully considered and revealed through our living and presiding prophet and apostles.

Finally, we are taught that special personal revelation should only be shared if the Lord reveals to us which specific people we should share it with. While the Lord may say you can share it, that does not mean it should be shared with everyone. Jesus warned us about casting our pearls to the swine. When we don't treat our revelations in a sacred and special way, then they become casual, and the Lord stops revealing new things to us.

I tend to agree mostly with this. I do however believe God calls prophets and apostles at His discretion. Although I will not claim to be such, I know an apostle is simply one who is sent. In the larger sense they establish churches in unseeded territory. In a smaller sense they go for as witnesses, being sent by God. I was not a member of any church when God sent me to the first reservation through a bunch of unusually circumstances. The trip bore fruit in 2 different states. I was not sent nor approved of by anyone but God.

But I agree about the revelations. If it is not confirmed by at least Scripture it should be kept private or amongst close friends/family. In some cases revelations can be shared only with people of faith, but not with those outside the faith. Those simply wouldn't understand and need to be fed milk, not meat.

Online is a little diffrent because you can be sharing something amongst people of faith but the messages can also be accessed and read by those outside the faith.