"war And The Art Of War"

[Snow]

As of yet we have no knowledge of human flesh being fed to [German] prisoners, but we know that disease germs have been injected into their bloodstreams and it has been said that women have been nailed to doors within churches, after the brutes into whose hands they have fallen have accomplished their wicked purposes.

You know, we just don't get a lot of juicy commentary like we did in the Oct. 1918 Relief Society Magazine (5). I miss the good old days of assertive communication. Don't you?

"Common wisdom has held that men are the prime consumers of smut, but an Internet research company has found that women, primarily those between 18 and 34 years of age made up 42 percent of the visitors to such sites in January.

One woman, sho said she hopes to produce and direct her own pornographic films tod the Times this was an issue of "empowering" women.

Isn't it interesting how the world can take the very thing that saps humanity of it's real power and call it empowerment?

...Pornography today, which is being forced upon the people in ways never before comtemplated, is destroying countless lives, addicting minds and robbing people of uplifting passions and fellings. It causes people to view one another as objects for their own selfish pleasure, not as human beings worthy of respect and human dignity..."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with all that and stuff. I would say that the purveyors and consumers of porn, by and large, suffer those consequences more than do those who aren't involved with it. I don't have any evidence to back up that conclusion but it makes some prima facie sense, does it not? Maybe it even makes some a priori sense for that matter.

BUT, is it necessarily so? Is there an inevitable connection between porn and the aforemention incompatibly with human dignity, decency, goodness... I mean, could there be a person who involved themselves in the consumption of pornography, and yet maintained a good and productive and righteous life, towards him/herself, towards her/his family, in keeping with the wider principles of the gospel?

Are there such individual that are good practicing Christians? Good practicing Mormons? Good practicing members of the Green Party?

Note: I just posted this last bit on porn as a new topic and am placing it here as an edit to this post to preserve a copy of it because I think at least one of the moderators with get a little bent about it and delete it. It actually came from the Feb 28, 2004 Church news so it should be more than fit to print but who knows if there will know that. So, I'm placing here for safekeeping so I can repost it easily...

[Guest curvette]

Yes. We've certainly done a 180 on presenting anything remotely controversial in church. (yawn!) BTW--what is it with German and Japanese men? From where does the seemingly inherent propensity for mind boggling barbarism come in these otherwise very civilized countries?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette@Feb 10 2004, 12:32 PM

Yes. We've certainly done a 180 on presenting anything remotely controversial in church. (yawn!) BTW--what is it with German and Japanese men? From where does the seemingly inherent propensity for mind boggling barbarism come in these otherwise very civilized countries?

I think it is because they aren't American. We only hold our own citizens prisoners in places like Topaz.

[Guest Starsky]

The Jew/? Eisenhower's Holocaust!

"G__, I hate the Germans..." (Dwight David Eisenhower in a letter to his wife in September, 1944)

First, I want you to picture something in your mind. You are a German soldier who survived through the battles of World II. You were not really politically involved, and your parents were also indifferent to politics,

but suddenly your education was interrupted and you were drafted into the German army and told where to fight. Now, in the Spring of 1945, you see that your country has been demolished by the Allies, your cities lie in ruins, and half of your family has been killed or is missing. Now, your unit is being surrounded, and it is finally time to surrender. The fact is, there is no other choice.

It has been a long, cold winter. The German army rations have not been all that good, but you managed to survive. Spring came late that year, with weeks of cold rainy weather in demolished Europe. Your boots are tattered, your uniform is falling apart, and the stress of surrender and the confusion that lies ahead for you has your guts being torn out. Now, it is over, you must surrender or be shot. This is war and the real world. You are taken as a German Prisoner of War into American hands. The Americans had 200 such Prisoner of War camps scattered across Germany. You are marched to a compound surrounded with barbed wire fences as far as the eye can see. Thousands upon thousands of your fellow German soldiers are already in this make-shift corral. Y

ou see no evidence of a latrine and after three hours of marching through the mud of the spring rain, the comfort of a latrine is upper-most in your mind. You are driven through the heavily guarded gate and find yourself free to move about, and you begin the futile search for the latrine. Finally, you ask for directions, and are informed that no such luxury exists.

No more time. You find a place and squat. First you were exhausted, then hungry, then fearful, and now; dirty. Hundreds more German prisoners are behind you, pushing you on, jamming you together and every one of them searching for the latrine as soon as they could do so. Now, late in the day, there is no space to even squat, much less sit down to rest your weary legs. None of the prisoners, you quickly learn, have had any food that day, in fact there was no food while in the American hands that any surviving prisoner can testify to. No one has eaten any food for weeks, and they are slowly starving and dying. But, they can't do this to us! There are the Geneva Convention rules for the treatment of Prisoners of War. There must be some mistake! Hope continues through the night, with no shelter from the cold, biting rain.

Your uniform is sopping wet, and formerly brave soldiers are weeping all around you, as buddy after buddy dies from the lack of food, water, sleep and shelter from the weather. After weeks of this, your own hope bleeds off into despair, and finally you actually begin to envy those who, having surrendered first manhood and then dignity, now also surrender life itself. More hopeless weeks go by. Finally, the last thing you remember is falling, unable to get up, and lying face down in the mud mixed with the excrement of those who have gone before.

Your body will be picked up long after it is cold, and taken to a special tent where your clothing is stripped off. So that you will be quickly forgotten, and never again identified, your dog-tag is snipped in half and

your body along with those of your fellow soldiers are covered with chemicals for rapid decomposition and buried. You were not one of the exceptions, for more than one million seven hundred thousand German

Prisoners of War died from a deliberate policy of extermination by starvation, exposure, and disease, under direct orders of the Jewish General Dwight David Eisenhower.

One month before the end of World War 11, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement, "Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts." Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff, thousands of people, after the war. Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that HE HATED THE GERMAN PEOPLE AS A RACE. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.

Of course, that was illegal under International law, so he issued an order on March 10, 1945 and verified by his initials on a cable of that date, that German Prisoners of War be predesignated as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" called in these reports as DEF. He ordered that these Germans did not fall under the Geneva Rules, and were not to be fed or given any water or medical attention. The Swiss Red Cross was not to inspect the camps, for under the DEF classification, they had no such authority or jurisdiction. Months after the war as officially over, Eisenhower's special German DEF camps were still in operation forcing the men into confinement, but denying that they were prisoners. As soon as the war was over, General George Patton simply turned his prisoners loose to fend for themselves and find their way home as best they could.

Eisenhower was furious, and issued a specific order to Patton, to turn these men over to the DEF camps. Knowing Patton as we do from history, we know that these orders were largely ignored, and it may well be that Patton's untimely and curious death may have been a result of what he knew about these wretched Eisenhower DEF camps. The book, OTHER LOSSES, found its way a few months ago into the hands of a Canadian news reporter, Peter Worthington, of the OTTAWA SUN. He did his own research through contacts he had in Canada, and reported in his column on September 12,1989 the following, in part: "...it is hard to escape the conclusion that Dwight Eisenhower was a war criminal of epic proportions. His (DEF) policy killed more Germans in peace than were killed in the European Theater."

"For years we have blamed the 1.7 million missing German POW's on the Russians. Until now, no one dug too deeply ... Witnesses and survivors have been interviewed by the author; one Allied officer compared the American camps to Buchenwald." It is known, that the Allies had sufficient stockpiles of food and medicine

to care for these German soldiers. This was deliberately and intentionally denied them. Many men died of gangrene from frostbite due to deliberate exposure. Local German people who offered these men food, were denied. General Patton's Third Army was the only command in the European Theater to release significant numbers of Germans.

Others, such as Omar Bradley and General J.C.H. Lee, Commander of Com Z, tried, and ordered the release of prisoners within a week of the war's end. However, a SHAEF Order, signed by Eisenhower, countermanded them on May 15th. Does that make you angry? What will it take to get the average pathetic

American involved in saving his country from such traitors at the top? Thirty years ago, amid the high popularity of Eisenhower, a book was written setting out the political and moral philosophy; of Dwight David

Eisenhower called, THE POLITICIAN, by Robert Welch. This year is the 107th Anniversary of Eisenhower's birth in Denison, Texas on October 14, 1890, the son of Jacob David Eisenhower and his wife Ida. Everyone is all excited about the celebration of this landmark in the history of "this American patriot."

Senator Robert Dole, in honor of the Commander of the American Death Camps, proposed that Washington's Dulles Airport be renamed the Eisenhower Airport!

The UNITED STATES MINT in Philadelphia, PA is actually issuing a special Eisenhower Centennial Silver Dollar for only $25 each. They will only mint 4 million of these collector's items, and veteran's magazines are promoting these coins under the slogan, "Remember the Man...Remember the Times..." Pardon me if I regurgitate! There will be some veterans who will not be buying these coins. Two will be Col. James Mason and Col. Charles Beasley who were in the U.S. Army Medical Corps who published a paper on the Eisenhower Death Camps in 1950. They stated in part: "Huddled close together for warmth, behind the barbed wire was a most awesome sight; nearly 100,000 haggard, apathetic, dirty, gaunt, blank-staring men clad in dirty gray uniforms, and standing ankle deep in mud ... water was a major problem, yet only 200 yards away the River Rhine was running bank full."

Another Veteran, who will not be buying any of the Eisenhower Silver Dollars is Martin Brech of Mahopac, New York, a semi-retired professor of philosophy at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, NY. In 1945, Brech was an 18 year old Private First Class in Company C of the 14th Infantry, assigned as a guard and interpreter at the Eisenhower Death Camp at Andernach, along the Rhine River. He stated for SPOTLIGHT, February 12, 1990: "My protests (regarding treatment of the German DEF'S) were met with hostility or indifference, and when I threw our ample rations to them over the barbed wire. I was threatened, making it clear that it was our deliberate policy not to adequately feed them."

"When they caught me throwing C- Rations over the fence, they threatened me with imprisonment. One Captain told me that he would shoot me if he saw me again tossing food to the Germans ... Some of the men were really only boys 13 years of age...Some of the prisoners were old men drafted by Hitler in his last ditch stand ... I understand that average weight of the prisoners at Andernach was 90 pounds...I have received threats ... Nevertheless, this...has liberated me, for I may now be heard when I relate the horrible atrocity I witnessed as a prison guard for one of 'Ike's death camps' along the Rhine." (Betty Lou Smith Hanson)

Note: Remember the photo of Ike's West Point yearbook picture when he was dubbed "IKE, THE TERRIBLE SWEDISH JEW"? By the way, he was next, or nearly so, to the last in his class. This article was first printed in 1990, but we thought it was meaningful to reprint it now.

[Guest curvette]

Of course. And the things that went on in Topaz were certainly on par with the massacre at Nanking and the the Nazi concentration camps.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette@Feb 10 2004, 01:37 PM

Of course. And the things that went on in Topaz were certainly on par with the massacre at Nanking and the the Nazi concentration camps.

Read my post just above yours.

[Guest curvette]

What? Are you a white supremacist too? Do you really believe this anti-Semitic propoganda? So what if Eisenhower hated the Germans? Under the circumstances, most of the world hated them. As to the rest of the ridiculous claims of this anonymous quote, would you please document it's claims?

[Guest Starsky]

It has all the sources right in it Curvette. You can be pro anything you want, and you can try and slap me around with your name calling, but you are the one who needs to learn something.

[Guest curvette]

Who wrote this paper? It has a few quotes in it with a few names, but most of it is simply undocumented commentary from an unnamed, obviously anti semitic person.

[Cal]

Curvy and Peace--what Peace posted is a big load of ______. Like you said, Curvy, Eisenhower has been quoted out of context, and the author has obviously pieced together unrelated facts in order to manufacture a total distorted image of Eisenhower. Eisenhower supported the Marshall plan to rebuild Germany. Why would he do that if he hated Germans that much? Sorry but this is just another example of how Peace believes anything she reads without reference to the reliablity of the sourse or knowledge of history.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Note: Remember the photo of Ike's West Point yearbook picture when he was dubbed "IKE, THE TERRIBLE SWEDISH JEW"? By the way, he was next, or nearly so, to the last in his class.

Eisenhower was 61st in a class of 164 at West Point. Get your anti-Semitic ranting source's facts right.

Cal -- Peace's source is taking bushels of facts out of context, but there is some truth to some of it. Eisenhower did come to hate the Germans, mainly from seeing the suffering of his men in a war he felt the German people did too little to stop. He did eventually come around to supporting the Marshall Plan.

German prisoners of war did suffer horribly at the end of the war, particularly those captured by the Russians, few of whom returned to Germany alive. Even those captured by the Western allies suffered, largely because the sheer number of prisoners overwhelmed the Allies' logistics. Remember that the Allied offensives in Europe were being pressed to the limits of the ability of the supply services to keep them provisioned. When the German army collapsed in May, the supply services that were just barely keeping up with the needs of the Allied armies suddenly were faced with the need to feed a million German prisoners as well. It simply wasn't possible.

In addition, by the end of the war, it was clear that unprecedented war crimes had been committed. The Allied commanders considered it necessary to try to identify war criminals before releasing German prisoners wholesale. As is the case today with the war on jihad terror, genuine prisoners of war (i.e. combatants who fought in uniform in units which had a clear chain of command and which conducted themselves in accordance with the laws of war) had to be separated from unlawful combatants, which couldn't be done overnight.

Add to this the fact that the winters of 1945 and 1946 were unusually harsh, and you start to understand why the death rate for German prisoners of war in the hands of the Western Allies was about the same as that for Western Allied prisoners of war in German hands. The Germans simply didn't have anywhere near the number of Allied prisoners to cope with. The largest component of prisoners was composed of downed airmen, who were held in camps run by the Luftwaffe, and who, at least until very late in the war, were treated relatively well out of a kind of professional courtesy, as fellow "knights of the air." (On the other hand, fliers who the Gestapo got its hands on, like the fifty "Great Escape" escapees who were shot, had it a lot worse.) Later in the war, when Germany's own population was starving, the POWs' supplies were cut way back and they had it very hard until their liberation.

In other words, German prisoners of war suffered because of insurmountable logistical problems. The civilians in the Nazi concentration camps suffered because that was the whole idea. Topaz, Manzanar, Tule Lake, and the other internment camps were a blot on America's history (although Japanese-Americans could avoid them by voluntarily moving away from the West Coast), but neither they nor the German POW camps can be compared with Auschwitz and Dachau.