Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 As societies develop, people have fewer kids. The developed nations of the world are facing major problems because their people refuse to have children. Their economies are stagnant and their pension systems, which depend on a large number of young workers supporting the previous, retired generation, are doomed. The Third World's population growth is also slowing as it develops. Mormon families are also shrinking.A lot of this has to do with the fact that raising kids gets more expensive, both comparatively and absolutely, as societies develop. The wealthier you are -- that is, the more money you can earn per hour -- the more money you have to give up to spend each additional hour raising your kids. Also, developed societies place more emphasis on parental responsibilities to their children. Generally speaking, a neurotic soccer mom spends a lot more time dealing with her children than does a Mexican immigrant mother of eight, who, from my wife's unbiased, empirical observation from her Santa Ana childhood, is more likely to let her kids have the run of the neighborhood. As immigrants into Western societies assimiliate to our more self-centered culture and adopt its assumptions about children, their fertility rate falls dramatically. Kids are a lot of work; people looking to maximize their own welfare on a purely secular basis are irrational to have many.The world will never be largely LDS, so even if LDS birthrates were not themselves falling, I doubt a Mormon-driven world population crisis would ever occur.Oil will eventually be used up no matter where we get it from.Not really. Oil can actually be synthesized from any organic matter (see http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/and...-kantor_x.htm); it's just that with oil so easily available from fossil fuels, it's uneconomical to do so. When fossil-fuel reserves run low enough to put permanent upward pressure on prices, expect alternative energy technologies to become viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Tao,Europe, Russia, and Japan have negative population growth. The United States would, too, if not for immigration. The Third World countries that supply immigrants to the developed world still have positive growth rates, but the birth rates are falling on the same trajectory as the developed world's did; they're just a few decades behind. The world's population will level off in a few decades, and then begin to fall -- possibly quite rapidly. I'll see if I can find some links on the subject; it's pretty well established.The way I see it, if every couple has at least 3 kids, the growth rate would increase steadily, right?But of course not every couple has 3 kids. Not every "couple" even gets together to be a couple, for that matter. (Just take a look around San Francisco or West Hollywood.) You need 2.1 children per woman just to keep the population stable (the extra .1 is to account for children who do not reproduce, either because they die young or are infertile either by choice or nature.) On the other hand, I was serious about Traffic Congestion. If population continues to grow, will there be enough room on our streets?Obviously not. But people adjust, and if congestion ever got so bad that the streets were impassable, people would use public transportation, telecommute, move to less crowded areas, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 I don't think we have an over population problem, as much as we have a waste problem. We don't use our resources correctly and we have over consumers ~pigs ~ who think the supply is endless. I blame government and big businesses for our problems, not big families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Okay, so the world has what? 6 BILLION people? So, what's the problem with reducing our populations? I just got back from driving up to the Canadian border of a state with only a million people. It's pretty sweet. How big is Los Angeles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I must have missed a revelation somewhere. When did God command us to have more than two children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+Apr 20 2005, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taoist_Saint @ Apr 20 2005, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Outshined@Apr 20 2005, 05:46 PM I must have missed a revelation somewhere. When did God command us to have more than two children? I was wondering the same thing. I always heard (since I moved to Utah) that the Church considered it an LDS person's duty to have as many children as possible. I even heard stories that within LDS Culture, some people judge women if they don't have at least three kids. Needless to say that is an arrogant attitude, and I have not heard anyone say such a thing since I joined the Church. My wife is one of seven kids. Most of her siblings have had at least three kids, or say that they plan to. One of them has five kids that he can't support. It seems like they feel obligated to do it. My wife and I tell them that we are happy with one kid, but if we have a second one, that's ok...but two is our limit.I'm guessing this is all based on the commandment to be fruitful and multiply, though I don't think God necessarily meant for us to do it non-stop. Maybe He meant that people should populate the world, until it reached a certain maximum point, and then start regulating population by having two or less children.Or is there a uniquely LDS scripture that recommends three or more kids? We have been told to have as many as 'possible' barring any health, financial, or emotional problems. I had as many as I did because of my mother wanting grand children and she only had two kids to get them from. LOL I definitely didn't follow the teaching of not running faster than I had strength.I tell my kids to not have any more than two because with the demands on today's parents, that is still a lot of work. With the school demands, financial demands, and this faster than real world we live in... it is not wise to have too many kids...I had to take care of my elderly parents as well as my little ones. It was just too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I had only heard such things in the Catholic faith, that sex was for procreation only and birth control was forbidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Apr 20 2005, 07:17 PM So was there an actual commandment somewhere in LDS scripture or a quote from a Prophet...or is this just something that evolved from the pioneer mentality, or possibly the large polygamist families? It was taught in one of the conferences recently. It was emphasized that wisdom was to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Have a nice summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Apr 20 2005, 07:53 PM But this is not a recent trend...LDS families have always been large. I'm just wondering if there was ever a commandment given to have lots of kids, or if it is cultural? It has been commanded, both in the past and the present. But to be totally honest, there seems to be a competition among the women and men, as to how many children they can have ~ and there is a bit of a 'snub' towards smaller families.My married son has yet to be able to have children, though he has been married now for two years. There are rude people who ask them why they haven't had children yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 20 2005, 08:03 PM My married son has yet to be able to have children, though he has been married now for two years. There are rude people who ask them why they haven't had children yet. I agree that we have been taught to have our children while we are young. I remember being discouraged of having a career because it would interfere with my ability of raising a family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amillia Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Yes. That is another thing ~ mothers are to stay in the home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Amillia@Apr 20 2005, 06:12 PM I tell my kids to not have any more than two because with the demands on today's parents, that is still a lot of work. With the school demands, financial demands, and this faster than real world we live in... it is not wise to have too many kids...I had to take care of my elderly parents as well as my little ones. It was just too much. That is SUCH a great point! Americans are living so much longer now than ever that many women are ending up raising their children AND caring for their aging parents simultaneously. With large families, while the younger kids are still at home, the duty of caring for the parents sets in, and last much, much longer than ever before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Amillia,It has been commanded, both in the past and the present.I'm familiar with the "in the past" counsel. Who's ordered big families "in the present"? My recollection from the GHI is that family size is between the parents and the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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