Bom

[Guest bat]

This is from another thread, but I thought it was worth mentioning in it's own thread.

1 Nephi 3:19

19 And behold, it is wisdom in God that we should obtain these records, that we may preserve unto our children the language of our fathers;

Mormon 9:34

34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.

[Guest curvette]

Why is this a contradiction? The time difference in these quotes would have been over a thousand years. Isn't it possible for language to change in that time frame? Or for them to have been surrounded by other people with competely separate languages? It sounds like they still knew their written language, but the other people they lived among or near didn't.

[Guest Starsky]

Yeah BAT! Just try and read the English language written 1000 years ago...and good luck with that! LOL and that was a written language...

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 12 2004, 09:59 AM

Yeah BAT! Just try and read the English language written 1000 years ago...and good luck with that! LOL and that was a written language...

Peace -- What fynde you harde to skyne aboute the Eynglische langue of a thusand years paste?

Bat -- Curvette's got a point. Lehi seems to have thought that getting the brass plates would allow his descendants to preserve their language, but it didn't work. (Maybe blending with all those pre-classic Maya and Olmecs, a la FARMS, caused something like the "Spanglish" dialect in southern California -- call it a "Mayabrew." Hey -- maybe you can use that for the name of your fermenting homemade beer.)

[Jenda]

Originally posted by bat@Feb 12 2004, 08:03 AM

This is from another thread, but I thought it was worth mentioning in it's own thread.

1 Nephi 3:19

19 And behold, it is wisdom in God that we should obtain these records, that we may preserve unto our children the language of our fathers;

Mormon 9:34

34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.

I don't see any contradiction. The plates mentioned in 1 Nephi are the plates of Laban, and the reason they got these plates is so that they could continue to keep their language pure (their spoken language). It is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that without a written record that the spoken language gets distorted over time. Ever hear of eubonics(sp?)?

The verse from Mormon is the language of the plates that they were condensing onto. You do know that what we have as the BoM is the Readers Digest version of what happened to those peoples, not the whole history, right?

Nephi's family were scribes, and they learned more than one language, why do you see a problem here?

[Guest bat]

I'll have to look into this when I get a chance. It might be that I am mistaken for the very first time. Ever.

PD,

I can't name it mayabrew. It's either going to be Bat Beer, or pay lay ale. I'm not too sure whether or not a Porter is an ale though, so it will probably be the former.

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Feb 12 2004, 11:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Feb 12 2004, 11:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 12 2004, 09:59 AM

Yeah BAT! Just try and read the English language written 1000 years ago...and good luck with that! LOL and that was a written language...

Peace -- What fynde you harde to skyne aboute the Eynglische langue of a thusand years paste?

Bat -- Curvette's got a point. Lehi seems to have thought that getting the brass plates would allow his descendants to preserve their language, but it didn't work. (Maybe blending with all those pre-classic Maya and Olmecs, a la FARMS, caused something like the "Spanglish" dialect in southern California -- call it a "Mayabrew." Hey -- maybe you can use that for the name of your fermenting homemade beer.)

Good try, PD. But language experts know that languages evolve in a way analogous to population genetics and that if the Mayaneque language of 1000 years ago had any Hebrew in it, there would be some trace of that in present mayan, there isn't.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Cal@Feb 12 2004, 08:38 PM

Good try, PD. But language experts know that languages evolve in a way analogous to population genetics and that if the Mayaneque language of 1000 years ago had any Hebrew in it, there would be some trace of that in present mayan, there isn't.

Don't really know about Mayan, but there is in other Native American cultures.

There is a book that was published in 1823 by a fellow by the name of Ethan Smith called "A View of the Hebrews" This book is considered to be a possible book that Joseph Smith plageurized the BoM from. I read this book, and while there is one common theme (that the American Indians are the remnants of Judah (and even this theme is suspect)) there are really no other similarities. Anyway, this book contains a partial list of Indian words and compared them to Jewish words, and lots of it leaves you questioning. Well, lots of it may leave you questioning, but it doesn't leave me questioning.

Here is the site of the book http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/voh/voh_main.shtml

Here is the page that has the list http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/voh/voh_3a.shtml Scroll down to page 90.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 13 2004, 05:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 13 2004, 05:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Cal@Feb 12 2004, 08:38 PM

Good try, PD. But language experts know that languages evolve in a way analogous to population genetics and that if the Mayaneque language of 1000 years ago had any Hebrew in it, there would be some trace of that in present mayan, there isn't.

Don't really know about Mayan, but there is in other Native American cultures.

There is a book that was published in 1823 by a fellow by the name of Ethan Smith called "A View of the Hebrews" This book is considered to be a possible book that Joseph Smith plageurized the BoM from. I read this book, and while there is one common theme (that the American Indians are the remnants of Judah (and even this theme is suspect)) there are really no other similarities. Anyway, this book contains a partial list of Indian words and compared them to Jewish words, and lots of it leaves you questioning. Well, lots of it may leave you questioning, but it doesn't leave me questioning.

Here is the site of the book http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/voh/voh_main.shtml

Here is the page that has the list http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/voh/voh_3a.shtml Scroll down to page 90.

Jenda--I have no idea what you are talking about (and suspect you don't either) ---Ethan Smith hardly did a scientific study of the origins of native american languages. Such studies HAVE been done--and they clearly show that, after extracting out post-columbian language influence (which is probably what you were refering to as your "jewish" influence), the native american tongues derive from north east asia, in agreement with the genetic studies.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Cal+Feb 12 2004, 08:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Feb 12 2004, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -TheProudDuck@Feb 12 2004, 11:34 AM

<!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 12 2004, 09:59 AM

Yeah BAT! Just try and read the English language written 1000 years ago...and good luck with that! LOL and that was a written language...

Peace -- What fynde you harde to skyne aboute the Eynglische langue of a thusand years paste?

Bat -- Curvette's got a point. Lehi seems to have thought that getting the brass plates would allow his descendants to preserve their language, but it didn't work. (Maybe blending with all those pre-classic Maya and Olmecs, a la FARMS, caused something like the "Spanglish" dialect in southern California -- call it a "Mayabrew." Hey -- maybe you can use that for the name of your fermenting homemade beer.)

Good try, PD. But language experts know that languages evolve in a way analogous to population genetics and that if the Mayaneque language of 1000 years ago had any Hebrew in it, there would be some trace of that in present mayan, there isn't.

Ah, but I'm not arguing that the Maya borrowed from Hebrew. I'm saying that maybe the Hebrew of the Nephites borrowed from Mayan. That would explain the statement in Mormon 9 that the Nephite language had changed.

If the Maya were the majority culture and the Nephites were the minority, you would expect the Nephites' language to be changed more than the Mayas'. I mean, the Spanish spoken in southern California is an absolutely gadawful mismash of bad English and mumbled Spanish. My Spanish ancestors would shriek in horror and have the manglers of their language summarily garroted. But the majority language of English hasn't been changed much at all, aside from some occasional food references and gubernatorial catch-phrases (hasta la vista, baby!)