Eating the forbidden fruit.

[Pamatridis]

Justice,

Satan was anti-Christ because without Christ he could bring about His plan. Had he been able to get Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit, so that they could gain the knowledge of how to have offspring, then immediately have them partake of the tree of life, they were lost and fallen forever with no chance at redemption. Man would have remained here unable to die, unable to be redeemed, in a lost and fallen state...

What do we assume would have been the impact of partaking of the fruit on Adam and Eve. It wouldn't be termed a resurrection, because they hadn't died (and Christ had not yet opened the way to this gift). It simply says, "there would have been no death" (verse 23). Does that mean that they still would have procreated, but their posterity would have lived on forever without death? Does it mean that Adam and Eve would have lived forever without posterity? That the legions of spirits designed to come through them would have been trapped in the spirit world eternally? unable to progress? or would they have come to the fallen earth through Adam and Eve and inherited the same immortality -- cast out forever without redemption?

[Justice]

I believe "the knowledge of good and evil" contained the mystery of how to procreate.

If you remember your pre-earth life teachings, there were 2 things we needed in order to be like Father:

1) A physical body

2) The knowledge of good and evil

I have already shown scripture from God Himself in the Bible where He clearly says one came as a result of, or along with the other. If you consider that gaining the knowledge of good and evil included the knowledge of how to procreate, it answers a great many questions.

In fact, reconsider that as you ponder on the 2 things we needed and you will see how closely those 2 things are related, and why 1 could not come without the other.

Simply, I believe Adam and Eve always had the ability to have children physically (once they gained a physical body). They only lacked the knowledge of how. They clearly gained that when they partook of the forbidden fruit because they realized their nakedness. So, at that point, they were both physically capable and had the knowledge, so they would have had children whether they partook of the tree of life or not. Remember, the tree of life was to change the state of their physical condition, or make them immortal. It was not going to change their knowledge or nature, that's why they needed to repent and have a mighty change of heart first.

[Justice]

I'd like to re-post a scripture I used earlier and offer additional comment:

Genesis 3:

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

In my view, what God is saying is:

Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now until he learns to choose the good, we must remove him from the vicinity of the tree of life so that he may not partake.

It wasn't enough to just gain the knowledge of good and evil. Commandments had to be given and we had to learn to choose the better part.

However, it was required to gain this knowledge in order to make a choice. You can also see why sexual sin is so severe if that knowledge was included in what we gained.

Through the fall we gained mortality (murder is #1) and the knowledge of how to procreate (sexual sin is #2).

[Justice]

More insights that might get me in trouble with some...

I don't believe the physical change that happened to Adam and Eve happened immediately. I believe it happened over a period of time. Whether it was one day, one week, one year, I don't know. But, the change was very pleasing. As the blood began to flow through their veins it brought heightened awareness to their senses of touch, taste, smell, and pleasure. I don't mean their senses were made more acute, but that they developed greater awareness to them, which allowed them to be tempted through their bodies more easily than when they were immortal. Perhaps because they were becoming less and less aware of the spiritual world. This is, in my view, why or how they became carnal, sensual, and devilish.

Why is this important?

God guarded the tree of life in 2 ways. First He placed cheribum and a flaming sword to guard it, and then he cast them out of the Garden of Eden. This tells me there was a period of time where the immediate guards were needed. The whole earth fell, including the tree of life, to a mortal condition, making it impossible to become immortal by eating the tree of life, over time. Once the change happened, the guards could be removed.

The guards were temporary, which fact Antionah was not aware of. That is what led to his question about the guards God placed to protect it. Once the tree lost it's regerative properties, man was destined to die and be separated from their physical bodies forever... were it not for the Redeemer.

That doesn't seem very significant at first, but it answers a couple more question I had. Namely, how Christ "reversed the effects of the fall in His own body" by shedding His blood... and the fact that the change He endured was more painful than man can bear.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Justice

[Justice]

immortal beings create immortal children

mortal beings create mortal children.

I've pondered on this many, many hours.

I'm not sure it's this simple. It leaves some questions. Obviously there more to it that I don't understand than I do, so I really can't offer more insight.

Only in their mortal flesh and blood state were they able to produce mortal flesh and blood children.

Yes. But, what Alma 12 and 42 teach is that men would fall and then partake of the tree of life immediately after. I see no evidence to suggest they wouold have forgotten how to have children.

In fact, if this is Lucifer's plan, it means they would have been able to have children because he was trying to bring all into bondage.