African-American Wallet Exchange

[HEthePrimate]

It's always appalling to hear yet another story of police officers shooting a black person because they thought he had a gun. I like how Moore shows up the absurdity of it all, and love the police officers' reactions to what he's doing! And the black people seem to be having lots of fun with it, too. Maybe laughter is a good way of relieving tension.

HEP

[bytor2112]

Because we ALL know how racists cops are and just itching to shoot some innocent people...especially black people.

[Maxel]

Michael Moore = bona fide idiot. And I don't use that word lightly.

He's a fool using hyperbole to further his own controversial claims to fame. His presence means the project is compromised, whatever it is. Making fun of honest police officers over the mistakes of others? Who is Michael Moore to do this and judge those officers?! He does this entire thing over one incident in New York (but I forgot- in the entire U.S., there's 3-4 other cases of the same thing happening! Oh no!), mocking the men who keep idiots like him safe?!

I can't believe some people have the gall to do what he does, and I can't believe others actually enjoy such sick displays. And who's creating the tension in the situation? Moore! The policemen in the video responded with dignity- which is more than can be said of Moore and those he suckers into his display of ignorant idiocy. People like him bring contention to whatever they touch- and we all know where contention comes from (if you need a hint, check out 3 Nephi 11:29).

Edited September 4, 2009 by Maxel

[bytor2112]

Michael Moore = bona fide idiot. And I don't use that word lightly.

He's a fool using hyperbole to further his own controversial claims to fame. His presence means the project is compromised, whatever it is. Making fun of honest police officers over the mistakes of others? Who is Michael Moore to do this and judge those officers?! He does this entire thing over one incident in New York (but I forgot- in the entire U.S., there's 3-4 other cases of the same thing happening! Oh no!), mocking the men who keep idiots like him safe?!

I can't believe some people have the gall to do what he does, and I can't believe others actually enjoy such sick displays. And who's creating the tension in the situation? Moore! The policemen in the video responded with dignity- which is more than can be said of Moore and those he suckers into his display of ignorant idiocy. People like him bring contention to whatever they touch- and we all know where contention comes from (if you need a hint, check out 3 Nephi 11:29).

I wish I could thank you multiple times for this post. :clap:

[Maxel]

Something else about this makes me mad.

According to every account I've found so far (including the BBC and wikipedia accounts), the wallet was never actually in Diallo's (the man who was shot 41 times) hand. No one has much information about what happened (if anyone does, I'd love to see the link).

So the very basis of Moore's tradgedy of errors is fallacious- NYPD officers don't have some sort of track record mistaking wallets for phones. At best, some have a track record of firing first and asking questions later (which is damnable, but not necessarily racially-driven).

Moore strikes out again- but makes it look like a home run.

[Elphaba]

I had nothing better to do this afternoon, so I decided to tackle this.

Something else about this makes me mad. According to every account I've found so far (including the BBC and wikipedia accounts), the wallet was never actually in Diallo's (the man who was shot 41 times) hand.

That is not what Wiki says. Nor does any other source I found. (I couldn't find one from the BBC.) They all insist Diallo was trying to show the police officer his wallet.

The following is an excerpt from the New York Times ongoing series, called Amidou Diallo stories, that gives a detailed and comprehensive account of the incident and its aftermath. The bold and italics are mine. From the story:

THE four cops who killed Amadou Diallo will tell a story of that fateful night that begins with a suspicious figure in a dark doorway and ends seconds later with cops in tears.

It is the story the city has been waiting to hear since Diallo was killed in a hail of police bullets seven weeks ago - the story of the four Street Crime Unit officers charged with murdering him.

The heart of it all occurred in about eight seconds.

Based on interviews with law-enforcement officials and sources familiar with the case, and examination of police records and medical examiner's reports, this is that exclusive account:

About 11:45 p.m. Feb. 4, the four officers riding in a battered unmarked police car turned south onto Wheeler Avenue in the Soundview section of The Bronx.

Kenneth Boss Jr., 27, was behind the wheel. Edward McMellon, 26, was next to him. Sean Carroll, 35, was behind McMellon; Richard Murphy, 26, sat behind Boss.

The officers were on patrol, looking for a vicious rapist who had struck nearly 30 times in six years in The Bronx and upper Manhattan.

They were also looking for people with guns, the primary mission of the unit. And they were aware that the NYPD had established a successful Model Block program on nearby Elder Avenue that had driven dealers to nearby streets, operating out of doorways.

As they rolled along, they spotted the figure of a slight man standing atop a short, five-step stoop in the doorway of 1157 Wheeler. He was pacing and fidgeting, and seemed suspicious.

He also seemed suspicious to a passer-by who lived on the block and later was questioned by investigators.

The officers did their job - the frightening task they volunteer for by joining the special unit.

Rather than drive past the suspicious man, they stopped their car to question him. Their actions have taken thousands of guns off the streets, and contributed mightily to the city's crime decline. But their searches have become the subject of controversy.

McMellon and Carroll got out on the right side of the car, closest to the man in the doorway, later identified as Amadou Diallo, a West African immigrant making a living as a downtown Manhattan street peddler.

The two officers began walking toward Diallo. They had their badges dangling from their necks.

At one point, McMellon unholstered his 9mm semiautomatic, and kept it pressed along his right thigh, pointing down toward the sidewalk, exactly as he was taught in the Police Academy.

He and Carroll identified themselves as police officers several times as they neared the stoop.

"Police. Hold it. Stay there," they say.

It is impossible to know what Diallo was thinking. It has been suggested he may have thought they were immigration agents seeking to quiz him about the false statements he made on the Immigration and Naturalization application that allowed him to stay in the United States.

Perhaps he simply was afraid of four armed men he did not know.

He turned away from McMellon and Carroll and stepped quickly into the 8-foot deep vestibule - contrary to their demand. He was now standing with his back to the officers and appeared to be trying to open the interior door to get away.

"Come out and keep your hands where we can see them," one cop says. "Show us your hands."

McMellon has climbed to the top of the stoop. Carroll is to McMellon's right walking up the steps.

Still without saying a word, Diallo now begins to turn to his left and toward the cops. Rather than showing his empty hands, Diallo begins reaching with his right hand into a pocket. At midnight on Wheeler Avenue, the cops feared he was reaching for a gun.

Diallo sadly played into that fear - he began to pull out something black in his right hand.

Carroll believes he sees a gun, now confirming a worst-case scenario.

"Gun!" Carroll yells. "He's got a gun!"

Numerous witnesses have testified to hearing Carroll's cry.

McMellon now also believes Diallo is pulling a gun on him - at point-blank range.

McMellon raises his weapon and squeezes off three shots at Diallo.

Instinctively, the cop tries to step back, but there is no footing and he falls off the stoop, arms raised over his head. He lands solidly on the base of his spine, cracking the tailbone.

For a brief moment, there is no gunfire - a pause that other witnesses have told about.

Carroll, hearing the shots and seeing McMellon fall back as if he had been shot, dives to his right, takes out his weapon and begins to fire at Diallo.

The flash from the gun barrels lights up the vestibule - perhaps reflecting off the glass - giving the impression a full-blown firefight is taking place.

Carroll begins to retreat and empties the rest of his 16-shot 9mm revolver.

Boss hears the gunfire, looks to his right, gets out of the car and sees McMellon down on his back. McMellon is trying to wiggle away from the stoop while lifting his head and arms and firing again at Diallo.

Boss runs around the front of the car - into what he thinks is a furious gunfight - to save his comrade. He suddenly sees Diallo's figure crouched in the doorway - and he fires. Five times.

Murphy, who has come around the rear of the car, also rushes forward to defend McMellon and Carroll. He takes out his weapon, fires four shots into the vestibule and then dives to the right out of harm's way.

The fusillade - 41 shots in all - left Diallo pinned in a corner of the vestibule. Nineteen of the NYPD full-metal-jacket bullets pierced his body, tearing organs but never knocking him down.

When the eight to 10 seconds of gunfire ended, the officers quickly asked each other if they were hit. Then they radioed for an ambulance for the man in the vestibule.

Boss and Carroll went up the steps to check on Diallo and get his gun. But there was no weapon - only his black wallet, lying in his blood 18 inches from his right hand. There was also a shattered beeper. Carroll pressed hard several times on Diallo's chest to administer CPR before paramedics arrived.

The terrible truth had kicked in. They had made an irreversible, tragic, but honest mistake. They went into shock.

McMellon paced wildly back and forth, throwing his hat on the ground and kicking at it.

Carroll began to cry openly on the sidewalk, crouching and rubbing his eyes not far from Diallo's bullet-riddled body.

Murphy wiped tears from his eyes, trying to rub away the shock of knowing an innocent man was killed.

Boss climbed into the back of an arriving cop car and stared into space. When a supervisor leaned in and asked if he was all right, the best Boss could muster was a slight motion of a hand.

The officers desperately wanted to tell their stories to the grand jury, but their lawyers advised against it because of the swirling emotional and political climate.

The lawyers have all declined to comment on The Post's report, saying they will provide their accounts at the trial.

I cannot wrap my head around such a tragedy.

The following are excerpts from other news sources that address the question as to whether Diallo had his wallet in his hand or not.

Amadou Diallo

All four officers, who were in plainclothes, said they approached Mr. Diallo because they thought he fit the description of a man wanted in a rape case. They contended that when he pulled out his wallet to show identification they mistook it for a gun.

　

Wikipedia Amadou Diallo

　

As the suspect reached into his jacket, Carroll believed Diallo was drawing a firearm and yelled "Gun!" to alert his colleagues. The officers opened fire on Diallo and during the burst McMellon fell down the steps, appearing to be shot. The four officers fired forty-one shots, hitting Diallo nineteen times. Investigation found no weapons on Diallo's body; the item he had pulled out of his jacket was not a gun, but a wallet.

　

Amadou Diallo

　

The police say they mistook Diallo's black wallet, which he apparently proffered in an outstretched hand, for a gun, and believing their lives were in danger, the police fired their weapons 41 times.

The Washington Post

In February 1999, four New York City policemen searching for a rape suspect knocked on Amadou Diallo's door to question him. When he came to the door he reached inside his jacket, at which point the officers shot at him 41 times, hitting him with 19 bullets. The object Diallo was reaching for turned out to be his wallet.

I admit the stories are not entirely consistent, in that some say Diallo was in the process of pulling his wallet out, while others say he already had. But either way, Diallo did have his wallet in his hand when Officer Carroll prematurely shouted out that he had a gun.

Elphaba

[Maxel]

Thanks for doing the legwork, Elphaba!

The following from the BBC news account lead me to believe that Diallo hadn't pulled out his wallet yet:

Police sources said Mr Diallo reached into his pocket and the officers, who are all white, thought he was going for a gun.

That, coupled with the wikipedia account (which portrays Diallo reaching into his jacket but not actually taking out his wallet) lead me to believe Diallo hadn't gotten his wallet all the way out of his jacket.

Whatever really did happen, there's evidently enough reason to assume Carroll panicked more from the action of Diallo reaching into his jacket rather than holding an object misidentified as a gun. I think part of the reason this story made it so big was the fact that 41 rounds were fired (19 hitting Diallo)- an average of 10.25 rounds per officer. It seems to be more of a case of stressed officers panicking and overreacting than racial profiling.

That won't, of course, stop Michael Moore from using the situation to his advantage and sell his brand of malcontention. One thing I did find funny (ironic?) in the video is the scene where Moore takes the black man's cell phone and asks the crowd what it looks like in his hand. It's harder to tell what the object is in the black man's hand because (shocker!) the outline of the black object is harder to see against black skin- i.e., it would be harder to tell if it was a cell phone or a small handgun in teh black man's hand (especially at night).

[Elphaba]

Thanks for doing the legwork, Elphaba!

You're welcome.

The following from the BBC news account lead me to believe that Diallo hadn't pulled out his wallet yet:

I see your point. I do think the BBC account is questionable in that it states the officers were looking for a suspect in the shooting death of a taxi driver. They actually were looking for a rape suspect.

That, coupled with the wikipedia account (which portrays Diallo reaching into his jacket but not actually taking out his wallet) lead me to believe Diallo hadn't gotten his wallet all the way out of his jacket.

I understand why you came to believe that, but I disagree based on Carroll's own testimony.

From the New York Times:

Based on interviews with law-enforcement officials and sources familiar with the case, and examination of police records and medical examiner's reports, this is that exclusive account:

. . . .

Carroll believes he sees a gun, now confirming a worst-case scenario.

From the Times article:

Officer Sean Carroll's testimony was searing. >snip< Diallo did not stop, he added, and instead headed to the back of the vestibule.There, Carroll said, he reached into his back pocket and pulled out a black object. "Gun!" Carroll screamed, as he fired his weapon at Diallo. Officer Edward McMellon followed suit, and the two cops half-ran, half-fell down the steps of the building.

"Sees," and "pulled out" indicate Officer Carroll actually saw something, which we now know was the wallet.

Whatever really did happen, there's evidently enough reason to assume Carroll panicked more from the action of Diallo reaching into his jacket rather than holding an object misidentified as a gun.

Again, I disagree based on Officer Carroll's own testimony.

I think part of the reason this story made it so big was the fact that 41 rounds were fired (19 hitting Diallo)- an average of 10.25 rounds per officer.

I agree; however, I believe if only one bullet was shot, and it killed Diallo, there still would have been an uproar, given Diallo was innocent.

It seems to be more of a case of stressed officers panicking and overreacting than racial profiling.

It's obvious the officers panicked and overreacted, and under the circumstances, I can see why. I'm not condoning their actions, and I think they should be held to a higher standard that would prevent this type of tragedy. But it is not that black and white. Obviously the officers were extremely traumatized by what happened, or at least Carroll was. Apparently during the trial two of the officers did not appear upset by their actions.

I agree this was not racial profiling in that the rape suspect they were searching for was black.

That won't, of course, stop Michael Moore from using the situation to his advantage and sell his brand of malcontention. One thing I did find funny (ironic?) in the video is the scene where Moore takes the black man's cell phone and asks the crowd what it looks like in his hand. It's harder to tell what the object is in the black man's hand because (shocker!) the outline of the black object is harder to see against black skin- i.e., it would be harder to tell if it was a cell phone or a small handgun in teh black man's hand (especially at night).

Okay.

Elphaba

[Islander]

I think MM is a over-grown, neglected as a child, attention-seeking, self promoting and hypocritical caricature. I should probably stop here...

[Guest huanic]

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