Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Do these verses relate at all to the verse in romans 8? 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. 33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye asanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the bblood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become dholy, without spot. ONE MORE QUESTION... Is it possible to become perfect after death... or is this kind of perfection done in this life through repentence etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrypotter Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Originally posted by Please@Sep 30 2005, 11:05 PMDo these verses relate at all to the verse in romans 8?32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye asanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the bblood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become dholy, without spot.ONE MORE QUESTION...Is it possible to become perfect after death... or is this kind of perfection done in this life through repentence etc?←I like the scripture in Alam i think it is 34 or 38 "this life is the time to prepare to meet God." I don't think we can be perfect in this life what i think is we need to cleanse ourselves through the atoning blood of Christ so we might recieve his spirit which will sanctify us from all unrighteousness. We can reach a state in this life when we are worthy to recieve the second comforter " The promise of Exhaltation" i believe this to be the Holy Spirit of promise kind of a comfirmation a good account to read on this is Thankful Pratt record of recieving it in the autobiography of P P Pratt.Another good scripture is in Isiah where we sees God in the temple and says he is unclean and a cheribum takes a coal from the altar which represent the atoning blood because Chirst was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world the coal is lain on his lips and he is purged from his sins this is all symbolic but mean we have to cleanse orselves or as King bemnjamin puts it rid our garments of the blood.Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrypotter Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Originally posted by Please@Sep 30 2005, 11:05 PMDo these verses relate at all to the verse in romans 8?32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye asanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the bblood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become dholy, without spot.ONE MORE QUESTION...Is it possible to become perfect after death... or is this kind of perfection done in this life through repentence etc?←I like the scripture in Alam i think it is 34 or 38 "this life is the time to prepare to meet God." I don't think we can be perfect in this life what i think is we need to cleanse ourselves through the atoning blood of Christ so we might recieve his spirit which will sanctify us from all unrighteousness. We can reach a state in this life when we are worthy to recieve the second comforter " The promise of Exhaltation" i believe this to be the Holy Spirit of promise kind of a comfirmation a good account to read on this is Thankful Pratt record of recieving it in the autobiography of P P Pratt.Another good scripture is in Isiah where we sees God in the temple and says he is unclean and a cheribum takes a coal from the altar which represent the atoning blood because Chirst was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world the coal is lain on his lips and he is purged from his sins this is all symbolic but mean we have to cleanse orselves or as King bemnjamin puts it rid our garments of the blood. It all comes down to following ChristHope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Originally posted by harrypotter+Oct 1 2005, 12:45 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 30 2005, 11:05 PMDo these verses relate at all to the verse in romans 8?32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye asanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the bblood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become dholy, without spot.ONE MORE QUESTION...Is it possible to become perfect after death... or is this kind of perfection done in this life through repentence etc?←I like the scripture in Alma i think it is 34 or 38 "this life is the time to prepare to meet God." I don't think we can be perfect in this life what i think is we need to cleanse ourselves through the atoning blood of Christ so we might receive his spirit which will sanctify us from all unrighteousness. We can reach a state in this life when we are worthy to recieve the second comforter " The promise of Exhaltation" i believe this to be the Holy Spirit of promise kind of a comfirmation a good account to read on this is Thankful Pratt record of recieving it in the autobiography of P P Pratt.Another good scripture is in Isiah where we sees God in the temple and says he is unclean and a cheribum takes a coal from the altar which represent the atoning blood because Chirst was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world the coal is lain on his lips and he is purged from his sins this is all symbolic but mean we have to cleanse orselves or as King bemnjamin puts it rid our garments of the blood. It all comes down to following ChristHope this helps.←Do you believe there are two kinds of perfect? the spiritual and the physical? and if it is here that we can have our sins atoned for... and not after this life because this is the time to repent and come unto Christ to have the sins removed... then when would that happen after death as discribed in this Moroni scripture? Mosiah 27:25 states that we must be born again changed from a fallen state to one of righteousness... and our righteousness comes here ... not in the next life.. right? that is why I am a bit confused...The physical perfect is a given... because everyone will be resurrected in their perfect frame... but the spiritual perfection mentioned in this scripture seems to be talking about repentence and becoming clean without spot... and isn't that here?One more question... because I really do appreciate you insights here... can we actually cleanse ourselves of the blood... is this not just for stewarts like prophets etc? One more thing... because you have said some pretty interesting things about the 2nd comforter... Joseph spoke on this one ... is there not an ordinance for this...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrypotter Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Originally posted by Please+Oct 1 2005, 01:09 AM-->Originally posted by harrypotter@Oct 1 2005, 12:45 AM<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Sep 30 2005, 11:05 PMDo these verses relate at all to the verse in romans 8?32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye asanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the bblood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become dholy, without spot.ONE MORE QUESTION...Is it possible to become perfect after death... or is this kind of perfection done in this life through repentence etc?←I like the scripture in Alma i think it is 34 or 38 "this life is the time to prepare to meet God." I don't think we can be perfect in this life what i think is we need to cleanse ourselves through the atoning blood of Christ so we might receive his spirit which will sanctify us from all unrighteousness. We can reach a state in this life when we are worthy to recieve the second comforter " The promise of Exhaltation" i believe this to be the Holy Spirit of promise kind of a comfirmation a good account to read on this is Thankful Pratt record of recieving it in the autobiography of P P Pratt.Another good scripture is in Isiah where we sees God in the temple and says he is unclean and a cheribum takes a coal from the altar which represent the atoning blood because Chirst was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world the coal is lain on his lips and he is purged from his sins this is all symbolic but mean we have to cleanse orselves or as King bemnjamin puts it rid our garments of the blood. It all comes down to following ChristHope this helps.←Do you believe there are two kinds of perfect? the spiritual and the physical? and if it is here that we can have our sins atoned for... and not after this life because this is the time to repent and come unto Christ to have the sins removed... then when would that happen after death as discribed in this Moroni scripture? Mosiah 27:25 states that we must be born again changed from a fallen state to one of righteousness... and our righteousness comes here ... not in the next life.. right? that is why I am a bit confused...The physical perfect is a given... because everyone will be resurrected in their perfect frame... but the spiritual perfection mentioned in this scripture seems to be talking about repentence and becoming clean without spot... and isn't that here?One more question... because I really do appreciate you insights here... can we actually cleanse ourselves of the blood... is this not just for stewarts like prophets etc? One more thing... because you have said some pretty interesting things about the 2nd comforter... Joseph spoke on this one ... is there not an ordinance for this...??←Your right there are to kinds of perfection a physical the ressurection and spiritual which we must attain through our faithfullness and obediance the first law of heaven we must be willing to live the laws of the land remmeber Satan got cast out because he didn't want to.You will find the answer to most things in the temple! Mainly it is through our faithfulness Alma talks about faith not being perfect until we have try it out then we know of a surity that it is true to have a state of perfect knowledge will require us to learn alot more than is available to us here at the moment.Therefore we can't be perfect.I believe we will have to pay the price for the sins we fail to repent of in this life read in D&c 19 " I have paid the price if they would repent if not they must suffer even as i" This is for those who knowingly sin and rebel against God and fail to come unto Christ and partake of his goodness. In paying for sins after this life Christ plays an inportant role as our mediator he will plead our cause.In king bejamin sermon he talks about the people who fell to the earth and said in one voice oh have mercy on us and apply the atoning blood of Christ they recieved it and where born again( lost the desire to do evil but to do good continually.) so yes we can.To clease ourselve of the blood.... and so on i believe applies to us all we are all watchmen/women we all have callings and made covenants to stand as a witness.The second comforter i have something somewhere i will try do dig out. I think it is a lot like to Holy Ghost when we are confirmed we recieve the gist of the holy ghost but if we do not live worthy although we have it i does we don't use it.Being married in the tempple and being sealed you have access to it but agian have to be worthy to recieve it it is not a sepererate being just a greater gift or bestol it is the promise of exhaltation and eternal life. check out calling and election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Originally posted by harrypotter@Oct 1 2005, 01:48 AMYour right there are to kinds of perfection a physical the ressurection and spiritual which we must attain through our faithfullness and obediance the first law of heaven we must be willing to live the laws of the land remmeber Satan got cast out because he didn't want to.You will find the answer to most things in the temple! Mainly it is through our faithfulness Alma talks about faith not being perfect until we have try it out then we know of a surity that it is true to have a state of perfect knowledge will require us to learn alot more than is available to us here at the moment.Therefore we can't be perfect.I believe we will have to pay the price for the sins we fail to repent of in this life read in D&c 19 " I have paid the price if they would repent if not they must suffer even as i" This is for those who knowingly sin and rebel against God and fail to come unto Christ and partake of his goodness. In paying for sins after this life Christ plays an inportant role as our mediator he will plead our cause.In king bejamin sermon he talks about the people who fell to the earth and said in one voice oh have mercy on us and apply the atoning blood of Christ they recieved it and where born again( lost the desire to do evil but to do good continually.) so yes we can.To clease ourselve of the blood.... and so on i believe applies to us all we are all watchmen/women we all have callings and made covenants to stand as a witness.The second comforter i have something somewhere i will try do dig out. I think it is a lot like to Holy Ghost when we are confirmed we recieve the gist of the holy ghost but if we do not live worthy although we have it i does we don't use it.Being married in the tempple and being sealed you have access to it but agian have to be worthy to recieve it it is not a sepererate being just a greater gift or bestol it is the promise of exhaltation and eternal life. check out calling and election←Okay so what you are saying is that perfect knowledge is perfection? I thought it would be a spiritual state... of being without spot... through Christ as taught in Moroni 10.Maybe there are different things we can become perfect in... like paying tithing... reading our scriptures.... having family prayer.... repenting and becoming born again.... perfect in Christ.... here... but perfect in body and knowledge after this life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrypotter Posted October 1, 2005 Report Share Posted October 1, 2005 Originally posted by Please+Oct 1 2005, 07:56 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-harrypotter@Oct 1 2005, 01:48 AMYour right there are to kinds of perfection a physical the ressurection and spiritual which we must attain through our faithfullness and obediance the first law of heaven we must be willing to live the laws of the land remmeber Satan got cast out because he didn't want to.You will find the answer to most things in the temple! Mainly it is through our faithfulness Alma talks about faith not being perfect until we have try it out then we know of a surity that it is true to have a state of perfect knowledge will require us to learn alot more than is available to us here at the moment.Therefore we can't be perfect.I believe we will have to pay the price for the sins we fail to repent of in this life read in D&c 19 " I have paid the price if they would repent if not they must suffer even as i" This is for those who knowingly sin and rebel against God and fail to come unto Christ and partake of his goodness. In paying for sins after this life Christ plays an inportant role as our mediator he will plead our cause.In king bejamin sermon he talks about the people who fell to the earth and said in one voice oh have mercy on us and apply the atoning blood of Christ they recieved it and where born again( lost the desire to do evil but to do good continually.) so yes we can.To clease ourselve of the blood.... and so on i believe applies to us all we are all watchmen/women we all have callings and made covenants to stand as a witness.The second comforter i have something somewhere i will try do dig out. I think it is a lot like to Holy Ghost when we are confirmed we recieve the gist of the holy ghost but if we do not live worthy although we have it i does we don't use it.Being married in the tempple and being sealed you have access to it but agian have to be worthy to recieve it it is not a sepererate being just a greater gift or bestol it is the promise of exhaltation and eternal life. check out calling and election←Okay so what you are saying is that perfect knowledge is perfection? I thought it would be a spiritual state... of being without spot... through Christ as taught in Moroni 10.Maybe there are different things we can become perfect in... like paying tithing... reading our scriptures.... having family prayer.... repenting and becoming born again.... perfect in Christ.... here... but perfect in body and knowledge after this life?←sounds good i'd agree with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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