Life And Beyond

[Guest funkyfool416]

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nothingness....sad alone it sounds horrible. NO good and no evil. empty no pain..no sorrow. no sadness no happiness. it is quite depressing.

It allows us to see why 2 Nephi 2 was given to us, so we wouldn't fall into this trap.

What is 2 Nephi 2?

http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/2

Whoa thats too long im not reading it. Thanks for the thought though.

[Guest bizabra]

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Yes, go figure.

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Being alive is a miracle to me, and I want to be all that I can be and live more fully and love more deeply and savor the experience of being a sentient life form. I will not live ascetic or denying life because I think it will earn me a BETTER reward in some hoped for afterlife. I also will not live a life that is hurtful and destructive to other humans. They all deserve to have the most of life that they can have, and physically or emotionally harming others takes that chance away from them. I live as good and decent a life as I can, being self responsible and socially responsible.

By the way Biz, this view is pretty cool; if more people felt this way we'd probably have fewer problems. B)

Trouble is, those who feel this way and have already had their life destroyed by an abuser, may figure that if they can't have a good life, no one can, and others who feel there is no God to take on the vengence element would, under this concept of no afterlife, feel justified in taking vengence upon their enemies or injurers themselves.

It would only work if everyone were happy and had no bad happen to them, which of course is not what happens in reality.

BIZ: I don't agree. If I had had a harsh past, with this belief, I would be even more inclined to make the best of the rest of my life and be even more aware of how our actions affect others. I would want even MORE to be a good and decent person so that no-one else would have to go through what I did. Why is there the need for vengeance? It just ###### the life out of a person and defeats the ability to experience LIFE. If this is all the life we get, then even more reason to not hold onto pain and anger and to waste the little time alive in pursuing revenge.

If there is nothingness ofter this life, what is the point. But there is the Plan of Happiness and that includes eternal life. So it is very sad to hear someone say that they don't believe there is a grand plan. How depressing. I am thankful that I have the truth in this gospel of Jesus Christ.

BIZ: Not depressing to ME. I am quite comfortable with the idea, and feel my relationships bonds to be even more precious because of it. I do not need the idea of eternal life to keep me happy and motivated to do and be good. BECAUSE life is so transient and brief, that is reason enough to be a good decent human and to treasure those I love and care about.

[Guest Syble]

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Yes, go figure.

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Being alive is a miracle to me, and I want to be all that I can be and live more fully and love more deeply and savor the experience of being a sentient life form. I will not live ascetic or denying life because I think it will earn me a BETTER reward in some hoped for afterlife. I also will not live a life that is hurtful and destructive to other humans. They all deserve to have the most of life that they can have, and physically or emotionally harming others takes that chance away from them. I live as good and decent a life as I can, being self responsible and socially responsible.

By the way Biz, this view is pretty cool; if more people felt this way we'd probably have fewer problems. B)

Trouble is, those who feel this way and have already had their life destroyed by an abuser, may figure that if they can't have a good life, no one can, and others who feel there is no God to take on the vengence element would, under this concept of no afterlife, feel justified in taking vengence upon their enemies or injurers themselves.

It would only work if everyone were happy and had no bad happen to them, which of course is not what happens in reality.

BIZ: I don't agree. If I had had a harsh past, with this belief, I would be even more inclined to make the best of the rest of my life and be even more aware of how our actions affect others. I would want even MORE to be a good and decent person so that no-one else would have to go through what I did. Why is there the need for vengeance? It just ###### the life out of a person and defeats the ability to experience LIFE. If this is all the life we get, then even more reason to not hold onto pain and anger and to waste the little time alive in pursuing revenge.

If there is nothingness ofter this life, what is the point. But there is the Plan of Happiness and that includes eternal life. So it is very sad to hear someone say that they don't believe there is a grand plan. How depressing. I am thankful that I have the truth in this gospel of Jesus Christ.

BIZ: Not depressing to ME. I am quite comfortable with the idea, and feel my relationships bonds to be even more precious because of it. I do not need the idea of eternal life to keep me happy and motivated to do and be good. BECAUSE life is so transient and brief, that is reason enough to be a good decent human and to treasure those I love and care about.

That is just you. The world is full of another kind of people who would just act out of anger or selfishness with no fear of consequences.

Too bad you aren't going to be creating your own worlds after this life. You could start a whole new planet of just nice people.

[sgallan]

That is just you. The world is full of another kind of people who would just act out of anger or selfishness with no fear of consequences.

This only holds water if all god believers, or believers in a hereafter, were good and/or terrific people. They are not. People are just people. Some good. some bad. And some somewhere in the middle. With tons of definitions of what is good and bad.

[Guest Syble]

That is just you. The world is full of another kind of people who would just act out of anger or selfishness with no fear of consequences.

This only holds water if all god believers, or believers in a hereafter, were good and/or terrific people. They are not. People are just people. Some good. some bad. And some somewhere in the middle. With tons of definitions of what is good and bad.

You must first ask yourself what this world would be like if there were no such thing as knowledge of a God. Would there be good and evil to even define anyone's behavior? That is what you were describing. A world where good and bad are personally defined and this is the world Satan has been working on for a very long time. He has only been unleased (as prophesied) in this last century. Up until then, God was acknowledged by most all the educated world. (Yes there are times and places where religion morphed into the same degrading and undefined mess we are in today, but not all at once all over the world as we have it today)

But now the world in general is moving quite rapidly towards eliminating the acknowledgment of an absolute God with absolute power teaching an absolute truth that is not subjective.

Only those holding to the IRON ROD which is the absolute truth from God/Christ will be able to withstand the smooth talking liers backed by Satan.

Now would be a good time to review the dream of Lehi.

[sgallan]

You must first ask yourself what this world would be like if there were no such thing as knowledge of a God. Would there be good and evil to even define anyone's behavior?

Is there now? You good is anothers evil. You are in fact considered evil and/or immoral by others who believe in a God. Many Eastern religions and societies believe in no specific God at all and seem to be plenty moral.

That is what you were describing. A world where good and bad are personally defined and this is the world Satan has been working on for a very long time. He has only been unleased (as prophesied) in this last century. Up until then, God was acknowledged by most all the educated world. (Yes there are times and places where religion morphed into the same degrading and undefined mess we are in today, but not all at once all over the world as we have it today)

Which version? There have literally been thousands of versions. And like I mentioned; in the east many of those religions didn't believe in a god at all.

But now the world in general is moving quite rapidly towards eliminating the acknowledgment of an absolute God with absolute power teaching an absolute truth that is not subjective.

Oh yeah, show me a time in history where everybody got along and believed in a specific one version of god.

Only those holding to the IRON ROD which is the absolute truth from God/Christ will be able to withstand the smooth talking liers backed by Satan.

Well if all I do is the result of Satan, then I think Satan is a far better diety then this god you worship. Seriously.

[Guest Syble]

Its your choice, thanks to the God you didn't choose. :)

[Guest Crazy Horse]

Life after death. My mother had an experience like this and told us of what she saw and heard. I suppose that as to the topic of the forum , we should have the opinions of those who have experienced life after death. Anyone have this happen?

B)

[sgallan]

Its your choice, thanks to the God you didn't choose.

Exactly. Raising a kid in this way too.

[Guest bizabra]

Sybl said: That is just you. The world is full of another kind of people who would just act out of anger or selfishness with no fear of consequences.

Too bad you aren't going to be creating your own worlds after this life. You could start a whole new planet of just nice people.

BIZ: Yes, and there are many folks out there who don't work so hard on their interpersonal relationships because they "have all eternity" to make it up to them or to spend time with them. I know, 'cuz I've had it said to me. Some also feel it doesn't matter what happens to the earth's environment because "it's all going to be restored anyway".

Point is, responsible and conscientious people will do the right thing withOUT worrying about the eternal consequences. Folks who need to be bribed by a "reward" are like little kids who won't behave in the store unless they get that toy or candy promise. It is better to DECIDE to be decent than to be decent only if you won't get caught or if you figure you're getting something for it.

Isn't that the reason for FREE AGENCY anyway? To learn to BE GOOD because it's the right thing?

Good and evil are NOT "personally defined". These concepts are SOCIALLY DEFINED. Each culture sets the rules for what is acceptable or not. Some rules work, and those societies thrive and pass along their ideas, some of which are enforced or given weight by having been asserted to have come from god via his messengers. If certain behaviours contribute to the greater good, then they become "good", if they contribute to the destruction of the greater good, then they are "evil" and proscribed.

Easy as that. No need for there to be inherent good and evil. It all comes from within the heart of man, no supernatural beings are required.

[Guest Syble]

The interesting thing is, I have never heard anyone within my ear shot say they did all they do for an eternal reward.

I know I don't. I do what I do because I love the Lord and want to please Him. I find that those who would do it any other way fit more into the pharasee group.

To bad there are those who only know the pharasee members. But it is a curiosity to me why they seem to be the only ones any outside the church seem to recognize or know.

[sgallan]

I do what I do because I love the Lord and want to please Him.

I do what I do because I am a godless heathen. It's still pretty good stuff though....

[Guest Syble]

uh huh! :)

[Guest bizabra]

The interesting thing is, I have never heard anyone within my ear shot say they did all they do for an eternal reward.

I know I don't. I do what I do because I love the Lord and want to please Him. I find that those who would do it any other way fit more into the pharasee group.

To bad there are those who only know the pharasee members. But it is a curiosity to me why they seem to be the only ones any outside the church seem to recognize or know.

BIZ: I know and love many members of THE CHURCH. Most of my immediate and extended family ARE mormons. I was a mormon, way back when. I am a card carrying member of Daughters of Utah Pioneers. I have 14 pioneer ancestors. I am an ethnic mormon. I said only that I have heard comments that indicate that the speaker feels they have all the time in eternity to spend time with those they love or to make ammends, being that earthly life is so busy and what-not. I do not "onlyknow pharasee members". I recognize, aknowledge, and personallly know many wonderful, sincere, and decent kind mormons. I was raised by them, for godsake! Probably I turned out as well as I did BECAUSE I had a good decent christian upbringing!

Please don'y make assumptions about who I know or what I believe. Thanks!

[sgallan]

uh huh!

Well okay.... since you doubt me. I spend 20 plus hours a week coaching kids. Mostly wrestling but also softball, soccer once, and general conditioning and weight training as well. I am a single dad now, and this is the hang out house for the neighborhood (I think they know their kids are safe here after I had my wife arrested for drugs in the house). Lots of kids. The house is a wreck. I have also done PT for police and fire academy's. I teach distance ed at a college. Most of my students are inmates. I visit them in prison even though it is not required. Prisons are not nice places. I am a doting father who homeschools. I made every single doctors visit when my wife was pregnant and did more than 50% of the raising of the kid before the wife went off the deep end. I do not look for 'stuff', and because of the wife stuff I am downsizing because there are more important things in life than money and stuff.

So tell me.... what value is there in your religion that I don't already practice. Protection from a scary god and an eternity with the likes of you. Gee.... that kinda sounds like hell to me. Maybe that it makes one an arrogant pious holier than thou type like you? Ha! I already have that myself.... I don't need your religion for that. You are actually a reason and example why I wouldn't want any religion for my kid. I actually read to the child the words of people like you. Without commentary mind you. Her exact words are usually.... "that is whack". So, I really appreciate your efforts in helping me raise another godless heathen. You rock girl!

Her is some picks of my kid a couple of years ago playing with a gold medal winner from Egypt... he really took a liking to her. I post it so it becomes real. And because it annoys some people. I am a godless heathen under the guiles of the adversary afterall.....

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200079.htm

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200088.htm

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200089.htm

[Guest Syble]

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The interesting thing is, I have never heard anyone within my ear shot say they did all they do for an eternal reward.

I know I don't. I do what I do because I love the Lord and want to please Him. I find that those who would do it any other way fit more into the pharasee group.

To bad there are those who only know the pharasee members. But it is a curiosity to me why they seem to be the only ones any outside the church seem to recognize or know.

BIZ: I know and love many members of THE CHURCH. Most of my immediate and extended family ARE mormons. I was a mormon, way back when. I am a card carrying member of Daughters of Utah Pioneers. I have 14 pioneer ancestors. I am an ethnic mormon. I said only that I have heard comments that indicate that the speaker feels they have all the time in eternity to spend time with those they love or to make ammends, being that earthly life is so busy and what-not. I do not "onlyknow pharasee members". I recognize, aknowledge, and personallly know many wonderful, sincere, and decent kind mormons. I was raised by them, for godsake! Probably I turned out as well as I did BECAUSE I had a good decent christian upbringing!

Please don'y make assumptions about who I know or what I believe. Thanks!

all eternity to make ammends? There is no repentence after this life, and if there is, it will indeed take all eternity to make even the smallest ammend.

I don't think anyone would really believe this or state they believe such a thing. I don't believe I am making assumptions as to who you know or what you believe except through your posts. If you don't want people trying to figure out why you have such a narrow experience, then don't pput it out there in such a narrow way.

[Guest bizabra]

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The interesting thing is, I have never heard anyone within my ear shot say they did all they do for an eternal reward.

I know I don't. I do what I do because I love the Lord and want to please Him. I find that those who would do it any other way fit more into the pharasee group.

To bad there are those who only know the pharasee members. But it is a curiosity to me why they seem to be the only ones any outside the church seem to recognize or know.

BIZ: I know and love many members of THE CHURCH. Most of my immediate and extended family ARE mormons. I was a mormon, way back when. I am a card carrying member of Daughters of Utah Pioneers. I have 14 pioneer ancestors. I am an ethnic mormon. I said only that I have heard comments that indicate that the speaker feels they have all the time in eternity to spend time with those they love or to make ammends, being that earthly life is so busy and what-not. I do not "onlyknow pharasee members". I recognize, aknowledge, and personallly know many wonderful, sincere, and decent kind mormons. I was raised by them, for godsake! Probably I turned out as well as I did BECAUSE I had a good decent christian upbringing!

Please don'y make assumptions about who I know or what I believe. Thanks!

all eternity to make ammends? There is no repentence after this life, and if there is, it will indeed take all eternity to make even the smallest ammend.

I don't think anyone would really believe this or state they believe such a thing. I don't believe I am making assumptions as to who you know or what you believe except through your posts. If you don't want people trying to figure out why you have such a narrow experience, then don't pput it out there in such a narrow way.

BIZ: Thanks for calling me a liar. I appreciate that.

[Guest Syble]

You are paranoid.

[Guest bizabra]

Thanks for calling me paranoid. I appreciate that. Way to go!

[Outshined]

Thanks for calling me paranoid. I appreciate that. Way to go!

It doesn't mean that people aren't really out to get you, you know...

[Sugarbay]

Ahhhh, yes, yet another forum topic that has degenerated into the spewing forth of venom.

Spewing forth now: B)

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you..." Kurt Cobain.

[IMHO]

I followed Sugarbay so I could once again shout....DITTO! Please, just let's be nice and Christ-like in our exchanges. It is okay to disagree, but do so respectufully and nicely.

[Sugarbay]

C'mon, IMHO, let's go get a soda! B)

[IMHO]

C'mon, IMHO, let's go get a soda! B)

Yes, a soda... and piece of cheesecake drizzled in chocolate! Maybe we should offer PrisonChaplain a donut, LOL

[sgallan]

Please, just let's be nice and Christ-like in our exchanges.

But I am.... I am being like the Jesus that went in and trashed a Temple.