sgallan

I'm no learned scientist, and I've not seen the movie in question. Further, I'm well aware that I.D. folk are very good at debating in front of general audiences, but have gained little traction in the scientific community, thus far. First, any good debater can debate pretty much anything..... either side of an issue. Second, if you want an insight as to why it isn't good science, read what the Judge in Pennsylvania had to write in his decision. It is over 100 pages long (start on pg 28 to get past the legalize stuff at the beginning). The Judge who wrote that decision was a Bush appointee, a Christian, and a conservative. Yet he shredded the whole ID concept in a science venue. It was brutal. http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

I was heartened that the responses to this piece were/are overwhelmingly positive.

My view is that 80% or more of the sisters seemed to always feel unworthy On a more practical note, I can tell you for a fact that my then convert wife NEVER felt "worthy". It is a non-issue now, she is bi-polar and brain damaged due to drug abuse, but that was her experience then. Given she already had "issues" going back a lifetime, this phenomina - while not the causation for later problems - obviously didn't help much either.

All men have them. In my experience more than just a couple of women have them as well.

That depends on how you quote them and what manner you use to attack those who don't believe in your interpetation of what they quoted, because it sounds to me like you are setting yourself up as their "one true" spokesperson, and interpeter.

The government of France commissioned an agency to study and investigate cult activity in the country. Apparently Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Scientologists, Transcendental Meditation, the Church of Christ, Pentecostals, and Evangelicals all qualify! I knew that!

You know when you do the "hero worship - they are basically God" thing ,with regards to past Apostles, it comes off as a little odd. Your not really meaning to come off this way are you?

So when does all this lusting I am supposed to be enjoying start?

On this earth they were carefree, live for the moment, could care less about Jesus Christ, and all they wanted to do was party and have fun. In short irresponsible. That is the usual stereotype of somebody who doesn't believe as you do - since they don't they are somehow "bad". The more interesting senario is somebody who was carefree but still responsible, could care less about Jesus Christ,and didn't really party all that much, but had a heck of a good time, by doing a lot of really good things. What about that senario?

There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. This is why I would want nothing to do with this particular version of God. Any diety that would punish eternally, for an unbelievably short period of time when compared to 'forever', given all the contradictorial evidences, and religions, in the World; not to mention those born in cultures where finding this version of Gods true religion is all but impossible, is a God I am not interested in even meeting much less spending an eternity with.

See, now here is the thing with this statement..... "There are those who believe that the doctrine of salvation for the dead offers men a second chance for salvation. I knew a man, now deceased, not a member of the Church, who was a degenerate old reprobate who found pleasure, as he supposed, in living after the manner of the world. A cigarette dangled from his lips, alcohol stenched his breath, and profane and bawdy stories defiled his lips. His moral status left much to be desired. So as his example he uses a person - who is not of the faith - and puts them in a terrible light. Sort of like; if you are not with us this is how you will turn out. Excuse me, I will gladly do a compare and contrast exercise in the manner I am living my life with the average devout member of any faith. He basically set up a strawman.

Judging by your posts on the evolution thread you've already taken some of those course so I guess there is room for one more Heathen...... welcome to the club.

Excuse me...... I am the resident Godless heathen thank you!

How do you define works? I define it as the evidence of my obedience to God's commandments. (Baptism, loving my neighbor, paying tithing, etc) It is the "ect" where we probably differ the most. My 'works' are being a hands on father, a teacher, a coach, a mentor, a good citizen, and to try to give more to society than I take. Given that, I figure that any God, or community of that God, that doesn't want me around is also one I don't want to be around either.

Yeah, well I think we define "works" a little differently, and thank goodness for the other part.

The only answer I can think of, really, is that they would prefer to inherit the Telestial Kingdom. So it begs the question, why would someone prefer to inherit the Telestial Kingdom over the Terrestrial Kingdom? If such a thing were proven to be true; I would. Why? I just wouldn't want to spend an eternity with this particular God and a lot of His followers.

They all did a marvelous job. They served their flock well. They inspired and they excelled. It made me realize that women had the capacity to do this kind of thing. I was married by a female Pastor..... she did a wonderful job.

Why? The conservative western American version of God, and it's hereafter, doesn't interest me.

You don't seem to like the answers we give you, even though they are fundamental to our faith. This is a pretty good point/observation. In my case I am familiar with the theology and wouldn't worship this posited God even if he were proven true. Something that I mentioned to some nice missionaries who came by about three weeks ago.

If you ever end-up joining a church, any church, because of measureable evidence, then what is going to happen when "better evidence" comes along? Are you going to leave that church, and join the new "better" church? Good question/observation. This is bit of cognative dissonance I no longer deal with. When your position is you believe in nothing supernatural there isn't any "expanations" or "changing faiths" necessary. Though it is not unusual for my Lack of faith being called a "faith" (don't go here or I will bring up Santa).

Yeah, I've heard many people debate back and forth about Einstein's beliefs but I really didn't want to get into it and it was not part of the point I was trying to make so I overlooked that Yeah I understand. I guess I have seen pretty much every significant historical figure that is considered "good", like Einstein, turned into some sort of true believer, that I am not as good as letting it go. I do find this trend an interesting phenomina. I mean what difference does it make to a persons faith if Einstein wasn't a believer in a specific Higher Power? Or that Jefferson was more agnostic than anything else. Or that Adams was a diest. And so on?

Honestly even if any religious versions of God could be proven I haven't seen any God yet that I would worship. Most religious Gods seem arbitrary, and the personality of the God seems to be pretty much just like those who worship that God. But that is just me..... if it works for others I am good with that.

then you are always safe sticking with the guiding standards of the General Authorities. This is what they're here for. I have no problem with good advice from any source.... what exactly are those standards in a specific way?

I guess we all have at one time or another have slipped up and said a swear word. Actually, I swear probably a lot more than most on this board. Having said that, I can honestly say I have never "slipped" as a substitute teacher. I might have used language in HS as a substitute, or as a coach, but never in anything under 9th grade, and the above swearing were not slips. I think it is something I was raised with..... there is a time and place. When you are raised with this concept you don't mess with it. A true story (I was there)..... my grandpa was a prizefighter back in his "day".... and this is an old school story (it was 1968). The women sat in the backseat, the men (even little boys) sat in the front seat. And so on. Now my grandpa could swear with the best of them, he was hardly pious as he took all of his grandkids barhopping when we became of age. It was a Scottish thing I think. He would even swear around my grandma. But that was a "she is my wife" thing. Anyhow, we are at a gas station, and the attendent (they used to have people who pumped you gas for you young-uns) had a attitude, and layed out a few F-bombs. Grandpa told him politely to stop. The attendenttold him to F off. So grandpa gets out of the car, blocks his wide punch, and KO's him with a short left hook. Grandpa is 62 and the attendent was big and in his 20's. Then grandpa finishes pumping the gas, puts the money in his pocket, and we go on our way (everybody is stone silent as Grandpa is PO'd).

War is often the unfortunate price of peace and security. Interesting that while the war on terror has continued all these years, there have been no more attacks on the U.S. and Iraq is better off today. So you are one of those "scared" one hundred year type occupation guys? Americans are such wimps..... in WWII, and in Darfur now (along with other countries), thousands die everyday. Millions died in general. Heck, even many hundreds of thousands of Americans. But a handful of terrorists kill a few thousand of us, and we spend a trillion dollars, and occupy a land that wasn't even part of the original attack, as a reaction? Goodness gracious, no wonder we seem to be a fading nation.