sgallan

And why is that? Why would it be heresy to teach the scientific arguments for Design vs. Random Selection? That's what this boils down to. It seems the scientific community is so afraid of religious influence, that it resorts its own dogmatism. After all, in the science classroom, there would be no discussion as to whether the design was done by a superior species, or by God. I told you why.... if you get your Christian God, then I get my Flying Spaghetti Monster. Voodoo folks get their theories. I get my Dragon. And anybody who can rationalize a certain aspect of science - using science to prove their case - also gets a say. I bet there are thousands of such ideas. At some point it is no longer science. Which is why if you do not teach the generally accepted science, not only as an institution, but as a professor, you can say good bye to your accredidation, or career. Science within higher education has to meet certain standards. That is what makes us the best in the world. It is why we are communicating via the internet. Our life spans go up. And any number of things. To do anything otherwise pretty much kills off our science education.

It just doesn't tie together to me UNLESS HF had a hand in all of this and then made the mutation happen that was, in most ways, miraculous. Having a supernatural being that is all powerful and all knowing form man out of the dust of the earth is more plausible to me than the argument of evolution. Perhaps, but evolution is what is considered the accepted science. To teach otherwise in an accredited secondary institution - within the science department - would lose a University it accredidation status. In other words, there isn't a single accredited College or University, in the country - with the best Secondadry educational system in the world - which teaches anything like creationalism within it's science departments. Now if they want to teach that within humanities, or religious studies, they can. But it isn't considered a hard science.

Here you go.... http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

I have read so many nod, wink, "yeah right" dismissals of "Intelligent Design," so many insistances that Darwinism is fact, that the debate is closed, that I.D. is Young Earth Creationism repackaged (it's not)...yes, when it comes to science education, literalist Christianity, as well as any other religion that argues for divine creation of the world, is treated as a despised minority superstition. I know of at least ten different creationalist theories. Including the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Which one would you suggest we teach? How about this one..... Zoroastrianism, the Religion of Ancient Persia The Bundahishn of the Middle Persian era tells of the world created by the deity Ahura Mazda. The great mountain, Alburz, grew for 800 years until it touched the sky. From that point, rain fell, forming the Vourukasha sea and two great rivers. The first animal, the white bull, lived on the bank of the river Veh Rod. However, the evil spirit, Angra Mainyu, killed it. Its seed was carried to the moon and purified, creating many animals and plants. Across the river lived the first man, Gayomard, bright as the sun. Angra Mainyu also killed him. Ouch! The sun purified his seed for forty years, which then sprouted a rhubarb plant. This plant grew into Mashya and Mashyanag, the first mortals. Instead of killing them, Angra Mainyu deceived them into worshipping him. After 50 years they bore twins, but they ate the twins, owing to their sin. After a very long time, two more twins were born, and from them came all humans (but specifically Persians). Having briefly addressed religion in science..... I have no issues with the Christian religion being taught in schools. Even with a Bible involved. The religion has obviously been a HUGE influence in our society. It demands study. As a home school parent I can assure you my kid is aware of it... both good and bad. Oh, FWIW I have no problem with nativity scenes. I say Merry Christmas and not Happy Hollidays. And my Junior High wrestling team does a little prayer circle thing before every meet. I think it is a great team bonding thing and have no issues with it at all. And I am about as secular as one can get.

FWIW Onyx.... the last election in the United States had a similar sort of change. It is looking like that change may be solidified and perhaps even include the Presidency (though that one is a tougher to call). I think it is one of those things where one party has the power for any amount of time, they tend to lose themselves in that power, and the voters tend to tire of them, and change direction.

Am I understanding correctly that you are opposed to public schools??? In general that is a Libertarian position.

I am not saying this is wrong.... and it is not meant as a criticism..... but in reality you are not a true Libertarian. You pick and choose the conservative part of the agena, but ignore the rest. That is not Libertarism, as you are only on board about 50%. There is a Party (if it still exists) that fits your beliefs better. It is called the Constitutionalist Party. Look it up. I suspect it is a better fit for your actual beliefs.

Communists...the same folks who said religion was an opiate of the masses. I am a non-believer. But I am not stupid. Both secular and religious have done a LOT of atrocities. I just figure it is bad (but talented) people, getting total power, doing what bad people do. It doesn't matter whether they believe in a God, a number of Gods, or no God at all. It is just part of what humanity is. It coincides with my basic dogma of: "Why would I join any religion, or be part of any religious belief? What additional value would such beliefs bring to my life that I don't already do? Other than protection from a scary hereafter, why would I bother? I am not looking for converts, if it works for you then keep it. Nurture it. Live it. But I am not you. I will hold my lifes activities against most and come out just fine. You (in a collective sense) cannot prove your God (any version) anymore than I can disprove any God. Unless you can show me some additional value in worshipping any posited God, I just do not see the point." I believe the one or two Libertarians on this board are consistent. I wasn't naming names. Like you I dabbled in the party for awhile. Registered in it. Went to fundraisers. Dinners. Even registered in it. I just made the observation because there has been many times I have found so-called Libertarians who had no clue as to what is deemed as "radical left", as well as "radical right".

Another note on the topic.... I have often noticed that those who proclaim to be Libertarian, are only Libertarian on the conservative end of the spectrum. But when it comes to the other end of Libertariasm.... the legal drugs, the abortion part of the debate, the military only to protect our borders.... this support of Libertariasm breaks down. They very much like the non-governmental part when it comes to land rights, taxes, local rule, welfare, and so forth. But when the other issues I mentioned above are also part of the package everything changes.

Yeah...... the personality cults of Communism were almost entirely secular.

So, you'd be okay with a heaven that included people like Rev. Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church)? Ironically he has a better chance of getting to the Christian heaven then I do.

"Scott, it might be useful for you to describe what your version of heaven/paradise would look like." For starters a heaven with a God that didn't exclude pretty much everybody (and even allow their eternal torture - depending on the version) would be nice.

FWIW.... even if any possible version of God could be proven, as a "godless heathen" I can't say I have seen a single version where I would want to spend an eternity with that posited God, or his/her/it's adherents. For example; the LDS version of God is an awful lot like really conservative white people who predominantly live in the intermountain west portion of the USA. Now I am not saying these people, or their version of God, is bad. Just that I personally wouldn't want to live a year in that environment, much less an eternity. For those who truly believe in this theology.... dang, it doesn't get much better. But for those who do not "fit in" (for lack of a better term), it would be a version of h*ll. I could say the same about virtually any God/H*ll based theology. For those who are not true believers.... both options are basically h*ll. Just my .02.

Bottom-line: I think you've still got a few safe years left. Whew. I can sleep easier now!

John Doe - Indeed. But it didn't take but one post to take a politically nuetral observation becoming a "they are evil" take, did it? And I really do wonder about some of the more rabid religious right types. I honestly think if they ever got total power I'd in serious trouble for my freedom, and perhaps even my life.... and I'm not even a Democrat. But I am a godless heathen.... that may be even worse.

Let let me see if I have properly summed up the position on a religious board..... ..... Republicans are of God, and Democrats are of Satan. Am I close?

Didn't he also just talk to a bunch of BYU students and say that some of the Prophets had led church members astray. Politically I'm guessing otherwise isn't that grounds for Temple Recommend removal? I can see it now..... TR question..... are you a Democrat?...... yes.... no TR for you. I suspect most LDS in Utah would probably be cool with that.

Hey Snow.... I basically got muzzled again. I told you me and my views are generally not welcome here. But you're cool. If you ever want to see how Reni is doing just google her. She has more references than I do now. Till the next time.... take care. :)

I am sick of bickering taking topics off topic, if you can't add to the initial topic cease responding. You just gave an example of what the topic is about..... I am a person who pretty much has I kid I am living for, because as a single dad I have to raise her - and she is plenty special. Without that I am the type of person who; getting on some in age, looking like I'll have no real retirement, and whose body is in the process of falling apart because of the intense way I have lived life, surviving until I am old does not look all that enticing. It is people like me who ARE the subject of topics like this. But instead of understanding the mindset.... you would rather just call such people crazy. I feel bad for the original posters angst..... but that poster had nothing to do with it. And unlike most of you.... when somebody committs suicide - if they are middle aged or older - I don't look at it as a "why" sort of thing. I pretty much 'get it' in most of the circumstances. When it's kids or young adults then I feel bad, because then it is usually emotional immaturity spur of the moment thing. They never gave life a chance. People who are older clearly have. It is a different mindset.

Some people want to live... instead of just survive. When it just becomes a survival thing they figure, "what's the point". I can understand that mindset. It's sort of like people who partake in extreme sports, they know there is a chance the odds will catch up to them, but figure what is the point of living if you cannot 'live'! Much as you probably cannot concpetualize people who climb K2 (with a pretty high mortality rate), you could never understand people who take their own lives other than to call it a "mental illness".

But, we also know that someone that takes their own life has to be very sick Always? I could see someone, who perhaps lost an entire family, who might tkae their life just because it would no longer be worth living. I can see the rationale of wanting to 'live' instead of just survive in some tortured way, and ending ones life as a result.

Sheesh, all day long with HS kids and now I have samething here....

Aphrodite - Two questions.... What happens if she get evicted (where does she go)? Are there any mental, or substance abuse issues, that are part of the issue? Without knowing this, it is hard to get a grasp for the situation.

What, no more exclamation points? Bummer. PS - Your homeboy should be announcing his "stepping down" anyday now. Just like I said.

A self serving LOL, with a lot of exclamation points (you probably should have put a few more up to buttress your case) is always so compelling.....