Texts From American Hisotry.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

The words of the prophets are true.

And not one says what you claim he does. They say our Constitution was inspired by God, which is true; not one says it was meant to be based in Christianity.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

And still no mention of Christianity and the Constitution.

To the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789, George Washington said that every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."

Is it some weird coincidence that nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any supreme being? No.

There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." http://earlyamerica.com

B)

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

Se, that's your interpreatation, when Christianity is never mentioned. God is, but not Christianity, and no one has denied that they addressed the issue of God or that it was inspired.

However, they did make sure that no particular faith was favored over another. That was quite wise.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

And no one has questioned that it is your opinion. Be happy with it, as it is your own.

I and others just don't happen to agree with your opinions on the subject.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

See, that's what I told you about your tendency to proclaim your opinions truth, and to argue for the sake of argument.

It is your opinion, nothing more.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

The words of the prophets are true.

Of course they are, but not one of them has said that our Constitution was intended to give favored status to Christianity. They've said that it was divinely-inspired, with which I agree, but they have not supporterd your claims about Christianity.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

You really like to argue.

Show me the word "Christ" in the Constitution.

By the way, there was no United States when the "prophets of old" were around.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Lindy]

Edited by Aristotle

Edited, Edited, Edited

BOY am I confused!

[Aristotle]

Edited, Edited, Edited

BOY am I confused!

Hi, Lindy!

Did you know "Silence is one of the hardest arguments to refute."? (Josh Billings, US Humorist, 1818-1885). LOL

[Outshined]

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Edited by Aristotle

Edited, Edited, Edited

BOY am I confused!

Sometimes contention just has to be reined in. Good for her.

Edit: Spoke too soon.

[Aristotle]

"If someone offers you a gift, and you decline to accept it, the other person still owns that gift. The same is true of insults and verbal attacks." - Steve Pavlina, How to Win an Argument, 08-31-05

[Outshined]

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Edited by Aristotle

Edited, Edited, Edited

BOY am I confused!

Sometimes contention just has to be reined in. Good for her.

Edit: Spoke too soon.

Way too soon.

Reading back to Fiannan's posts on his thread to find some relevant information. It went so far off track...

[Aristotle]

TEXT FROM AMERICAN HISTORY:

George Washington's Private Prayers

That President George Washington was a devout believer in Jesus Christ and had accepted Him as his Lord and Savior is easily demonstrated by a reading of his personal prayer book (written in his own handwriting), which was discovered in 1891 among a collection of his papers. To date, no historian has questioned its authenticity. It consists of twenty-four pages of his morning and evening prayers, revealing many of his theological beliefs about God, Jesus Christ, sin, salvation, eternal life, and himself as a humble servant of Christ.

Monday Morning

O Eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning before Thy Divine Majesty, beseeching Thee to accept of my humble and hearty thanks...Daily frame me more and more to live into the likeness of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in Thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends, and kindred, and unite us all in praising and glorifying Thee in all our works. (Faith of Our Founding Fathers)

[Outshined]

Of course we can post page after page of evidence that Washington was a Deist as well. Don't see a point to playing quote tag.

[Jason]

TEXT FROM AMERICAN HISTORY:

George Washington's Private Prayers

That President George Washington was a devout believer in Jesus Christ and had accepted Him as his Lord and Savior is easily demonstrated by a reading of his personal prayer book (written in his own handwriting), which was discovered in 1891 among a collection of his papers. To date, no historian has questioned its authenticity. It consists of twenty-four pages of his morning and evening prayers, revealing many of his theological beliefs about God, Jesus Christ, sin, salvation, eternal life, and himself as a humble servant of Christ.

Monday Morning

O Eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning before Thy Divine Majesty, beseeching Thee to accept of my humble and hearty thanks...Daily frame me more and more to live into the likeness of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in Thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends, and kindred, and unite us all in praising and glorifying Thee in all our works. (Faith of Our Founding Fathers)

That's interesting considering the Priest at the Anglican Church where he attended accused him of being a Deist! Furthermore, that Washington never took Communion, and went so far as to stop attending church on Communion sundays...

The so-called prayer book is likely a forgery.

"Philadelphia, Aug. 15, 1835.

"Dear Sir: In regard to the subject of your inquiry, truth requires me to say that Gen. Washington never received the communion in the churches of which I am the parochial minister. Mrs. Washington was an habitual communicant.

... I have been written to by many on that point, and have been obliged to answer them as I now do you. I am respectfully.

"Your humble servant,

"WILLIAM WHITE."

(Memoir of Bishop White, pp. 196, 197).

"One incident in Dr. Abercrombie's experience as a clergyman, in connection with the Father of his Country, is especially worthy of record; and the following account of it was given by the Doctor himself, in a letter to a friend, in 1831 shortly after there had been some public allusion to it: 'With respect to the inquiry you make I can only state the following facts; that, as pastor of the Episcopal church, observing that, on sacramental Sundays, Gen. Washington, immediately after the desk and pulpit services, went out with the greater part of the congregation -- always leaving Mrs. Washington with the other communicants -- she invariably being one -- I considered it my duty in a sermon on Public Worship, to state the unhappy tendency of example, particularly of those in elevated stations who uniformly turned their backs upon the celebration of the Lord's Supper. I acknowledge the remark was intended for the President; and as such he received it. A few days after, in conversation with, I believe, a senator of the United States, he told me he had dined the day before with the President, who in the course of conversation at table said that on the preceding Sunday he had received a very just reproof from the pulpit for always leaving the church before the administration of the Sacrament; that he honored the preacher for his integrity and candor; that he had never sufficiently considered the influence of his example, and that he would not again give cause for the repetition of the reproof; and that, as he had never been a communicant, were he to become one then it would be imputed to an ostentatious display of religious zeal? arising altogether from his elevated station. Accordingly, he never afterwards came on the morning of sacramental Sunday, though at other times he was a constant attendant in the morning'" (Annals of the American Pulpit, Vol. v, p. 394).

The Rev. E.D. Neill, in the Episcopal Recorder, the organ of the church of which it is claimed Washington was a communicant, says:

"As I read, a few days ago, of the death of the Rev. Richard M. Abercrombie, rector of St. Matthew's Protestant Episcopal church in Jersey City, memories of my boyhood arose. He was born not far from my father's house in Philadelphia and was the son of the Rev. James Abercrombie, a fine scholar and preacher, who had in early life corresponded with the great lexicographer, Dr. Samuel Johnson, and in later years was the assistant minister of Christ's and St. Peter's churches, in Philadelphia, where my maternal ancestors had worshiped for more than one generation. One day, after the father had reached four score years, the lately deceased son took me into the study of the aged man, and showed me a letter which President George Washington had written to his father, thanking him for the loan of one of his manuscript sermons. Washington and his wife were regular attendants upon his ministry while residing in Philadelphia. The President was not a communicant, notwithstanding all the pretty stories to the contrary, and after the close of the sermon on sacramental Sundays, had fallen into the habit of retiring from the church while his wife remained and communed."

Referring to Dr. Abercrombie's reproof of Washington, Mr. Neill says:

"Upon one occasion Dr. Abercromble alluded to the unhappy tendency of the example of those dignified by age and position turning their backs upon the celebration of the Lord's Supper. The discourse arrested the attention of Washington, and after that he never came to church with his wife on Communion Sunday."

The Rev. Dr. Wilson, in his famous sermon on the Religion of the Presidents, also alludes to this subject. He says:

"When the Congress sat in Philadelphia, President Washington attended the Episcopal church. The rector, Dr. Abercrombie, told me that on the days when the sacrament of the Lord's Supper was to be administered, Washington's custom was to rise just before the ceremony commenced, and walk out of church. This became a subject of remark in the congregation, as setting a bad example. At length the Doctor undertook to speak of it, with a direct allusion to the President. Washington was heard afterwards to remark that this was the first time a clergyman had thus preached to him, and he should henceforth neither trouble the Doctor nor his congregation on such occasions; and ever after that, upon communion days, he 'absented himself altogether from the church.'

[Aristotle]

Ut oh, Jason! Better be careful, or Outshined will accuse you of "playing quote tag!"

[Outshined]

I'm sure Ari will ignore his quotes and post some of her own, thus prolonging the game...much easier than dealing with them.

Or she may just accuse him of being "atheistic and anti-American"...