HiJolly Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 In response to the OP, yes, the Jews as a people should be held blameless by the peoples of the earth. HiJolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert10 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) What did Jesus say?Luke 23:34 - Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lotsA "hiss and a byword" is of the wicked. We can always Judge actions but never the Worthiness of the Soul doing those actions unless GOD gives us the Spirit of judgment. It is true that they are become a "Hiss and a byword" to many people on the earth. But that is not an excuse or justification to condemn Israel. They shall wake up and acknowledge their error in the day....Zechariah 13:4 - And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:Zechariah 13:5 - But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.Zechariah 13:6 - And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.Zechariah 13:7 - Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.Zechariah 13:8 - And it shall come to pass, [that] in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off [and] die; but the third shall be left therein.Zechariah 13:9 - And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.bert10A couple of threads here have discussed the role of the Jewish people and that of Pilate in the crucifixion of Jesus. Much hatred through history and to this day has been directed toward the Jewish people. Christ had to die on the cross in order to fulfill scripture. So shouldn't the Jews be held blameless?In the same vain, God promised to make them "a hiss and a byword". Can a persecutor of the Jewish people find justification for their acts in these words?What is the LDS perspective on histories treatment of the Jewish people and what is their ultimate fate in the eyes of God? Edited February 1, 2011 by bert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensalem Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 The LDS Church believes that a person is only held accountable for there own sins and not the sins of there ancestors. Those who demanded the crucifixion of Jesus Christ are held responsible for demanding his death, his death was foretold, and was needed for us to be saved. This does not automatically forgive there action in demanding the execution of an innocent man. They made the choose to reject and murder the Son of God and they must be held responsible in my opinion. The Jewish people though are not stained by Christ's blood like the many Churches have taught. Millions of Jews have been murdered because of this evil deception of Lucifer and it pains me to thing of all the poor souls who suffered at the hands of proclaimed "Christians" for a crime they never committed!I'm not a lawyer but it could be argued that the Jews had a right to call for his death, after all, Jesus did say..."before Abraham was, I Am (meaning , YAHWEH)". As I understand it, it was against the law to utter His name.I too empathize with your comments about the murders brought about at the hands of "Christians". I had in mind the histories of murderous riots and persecutions of Jews at presentations of Passion plays when I raised my questions in the OP. I also remember the words of those who cried for his death recorded in the gospel: "May his blood be upon us and our children." You could look at this statement in two. One they are taking responsibility for their actions or two they are protecting themselves since his blood saves. The elders of Jesus' time said, "...it is better that one man die than an enter nation (Israel) perish." I like to think that some understood that what they were doing was fulfillment of scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Millions? I've read about persecutions and pogroms and whatnot, but I've never heard the claim millions. The holocaust at around five million, but it didn't have anything to do with Jews being blamed for Jesus' death...Six million, at least. It actually had a lot to do with Jews being blamed for Jesus' death. In the Medieval world, the Jews were deicides. They were full of deceit, lies, cunning, evil plots, avarice, and morally and physically filthy and inferior. In Nazi ideology these negative traits were genetic. One of the books deeply influencing Hitler was a little tract called "On the Jews and Their Lies." This charming work was written by Martin Luther. Germany was home to other lovely traditions such as public works of art depicting Jews performing unspeakable acts with pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 There where 13 Crusades during these "holy wars" millions of Jews were displaced, raped, and murdered by Crusaders told that they were automatically forgiven for any sin since it is the Holy War of God. The Holocaust was child's play compared to the Crusades, the Crusades is the worst hate crime in recorded history. The Catholic Church murdered more people (Jews, Arabs, Gypsies, ect) over the course of the Crusades then Hitler did in the Holocaust from what I have seen. I don't have exact numbers but millions were murdered. Hitler was a terrible man but at least his victims got justice served in Nuremberg and the German people have taken steps to ensure they never do such evil again. The Catholic Church murdered millions during there bloody reign over Europe in the middle ages, no one ever stood trial or was punished. The Roman Catholic Church have never admitted responsibility for these actions nor have they been punished for there direct involvement in the murders of the Crusades and the silent approval of the Holocaust.No, the Holocaust was not child's play in comparison to the Crusades. The numbers of Jewish victims in 1096 are actually exagerated, those massacres being limited to certain communities. There are, for instance, no records of such in Swabia. The Rhineland communities actually recovered at least 20 years later, something which can't be said for the entire German Jewish community after the Holocaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Also, the Catholic church was actually fairly protective of the Rhineland Jews during the First Crusade, and the papal bull, the Sicut Judaeis, actually called for the Jews to be protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 The Jews had no part in the crusades nor wanted it they were just innocent victims, as was the innocent Muslim villages (that had no problems nor supported the militant Persian empire) that were destroyed along the route to the crusades simply for being Muslim.What militant Persian Empire? The only thing I can think of that comes close are Khwarazmi mercenaries allied with Salah ad-Din, who were mo less brutal than the Crusaders, if not more so.Most of the Crusades were against the Fatimids, Seljuks, Abbasids, and Ayyubids. The Crusades is the cause of the hate of the Muslim world of the west (which does not justify there jihads and terrorism against the west in any form whatsoever), an Muslim emperor attacks Christan pilgrims on the way to Jerusalem over territorial disputes (not religious disputes) and the Catholic Church retaliates with 13 "unholy wars" that murder million of Jews (which had nothing to do with the "cause" and Muslim civilians (the favorite target of the vile crusaders).The favourite target? Civilian populations ALWAYS suffered heaviest in war, no matter which side was involved. Your image of rampaging crusaders slaughtering Muslim women and children is completely ahistorical. For most of the history of Outremer, the citizens of any persuasion weren't murdered on a routine basis, even if there were legal proscriptions. Militarily the only people the Crusaders successful beat on a regular basis was women and children they raped and murdered on the way to Jerusalem and back. The crusades were massive failures seeing that the Holy Land never stayed in Christian hands for longThe crusaders didn't do too shabbily for themselves, all things considered. Were they as useless as you picture, then why did it take the Muslims that long to vanquish them? and the crimes committed were so terrible that Catholic membership would risk excommunication and even death hiding Jews, Muslims, and Gypsies from the Crusaders came through there town.??????The Persians started a territorial conflict, the Catholic Church made it into a genocide.?????????????????????/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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