Importance of location

[spamlds]

Another place you can add to the list is Martin's Cove in Wyoming. That's where some 200 people from the Martin handcart company perished. We just had a couple in our ward return from a mission there. They say that President Hinckley told earlier missionaries there that it's a holy place, sanctified by the sacrifice and the loss of life suffered there. Many people who go there report very sacred experiences.

Brigham Young once said that the dead are not far from us. They see our actions and are sometimes grieved at us for the choices we make. It may be that they remain close to the places that were special to them in their lives. I have certainly felt peculiar feelings when I have walked around Nauvoo when I have visited there.

[Bensalem]

Baptism is not necessary to be a literal descendant of Abraham/Israel. To be a member of spiritual Israel, the LDS Church, and related to Abraham by virtue of shared volitional covenant requires baptism. Membership into the LDS Church makes one a descendant of Abraham/Israel and if one is not already a descendant they are adopted into his family. The reverse is not true, and the position that being a literal descendant of Abraham/Israel confers membership into the Church has already been previously denied as being held.

And of course you have the geographical Israel of which such a question is rather nonsensical.

One Israel under Christ. The LDS church is not only the spiritual Israel but it is also the physical Israel.

Being a literal descendant of Abraham is no guarantee of being a part of Christ's Israel. Conversion to Christ is required; baptism in the LDS church is the threshold into the House of Israel.

[Bensalem]

There is much of value in seeking for spiritual lessons to be drawn from the biblical stories, yet that cannot replace the literal, physical meaning either. For myslef, I can draw a lesson in faith from Abraham's life, to survey and travel, so to speak, throughout what has been promised me, knowing that God can give it to me. We definitely should liken the scriptures unto ourselves. None of this though can mean that God did not promise the land of Canaan unto Abraham and his physical descendants, or that God did not himself initiates a covenant binding himself to fulfil that promise. People tend to forget about the covenant between the pieces.

God did not promise the land to Abraham's "physical descendants", He promised it to his seed. The promise is not linked to DNA, it is linked to faith in Jesus Christ.

The LDS Bible dictionary states: "Seed of Abraham. The heirs of the promises and covenants made to Abraham, and obtained only by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

No need to cut it any other way, it is clear to me that the Firebrand divides the two halves (Genesis 15:17).

[Bensalem]

Bensalem,

The scriptures discuss not only the spiritual gathering of Israel, but also the physical gathering of literal Israel. Why would that be so important to God, if they were no longer considered Israel any longer?

One of the appearances of Christ in the last days will be to the Jews, as he saves them from destruction by the Gentile nations. It will be at that time they will look upon the marks in his hands and feet and weep, realizing their ancestors slew the Son of God.

Isaiah and other prophets tells us repeatedly that God does not reject physical Israel forever. John the Revelator, Daniel, and Ezekiel see the future temple built by the Jews.

Why do all the ancient things with physical Israel, if God is only going to discard them as a meaningless thing in the end? Yes, for spiritual purposes they must all repent and receive Christ. And that will happen. They are still his people as a nation, even though as individuals they have yet to fully accept all his gospel.

As for your 1% milk, I don't really think you are getting what is being said here. Volgadon and I have extensive backgrounds in our studies of Israel. For example, you can read my Old Testament lessons here:

Old Testament - LDS Social Network Forums

And I did not discuss everything I know on these topics, as I didn't want to go too far over everyone's heads or write more than 10 or so pages worth of info per lesson.

I am certain if you were to take your interpretation of what connotes Israel to the ancient scripture department at BYU, they would be as nuanced as we are on this. Yes, there is a spiritual Israel that is very important for the exaltation of all mankind. But there is also a physical, literal Israel that is equally important to God and his eternal efforts.

Yes, and when they see the marks in His hands they will be converted. They will be baptized and join the Church and hence be included in Christ and in His Israel. But if they are not converted they will not enter into the Celestial kingdom of which Israel is a part in exaltation.

Their denial and stubbornness will gain them access to the Telestial kingdom, which glory is limited to that of the Holy Ghost.

I don't believe the scriptures are nuanced about Israel. The word of God is clear that the LDS church is the family of Israel.

[volgadon]

Their denial and stubbornness will gain them access to the Telestial kingdom, which glory is limited to that of the Holy Ghost.

One really hopes that you won't judged by the same measure you judge others. Hope though springs eternal.

[volgadon]

I don't believe the scriptures are nuanced about Israel. The word of God is clear that the LDS church is the family of Israel.

The word of God in scripture and through latter-day prophets is also clear that physical Israel is not replaced and displaced by the LDS church.

[Bensalem]

One really hopes that you won't judged by the same measure you judge others. Hope though springs eternal.

I'm only paraphrasing from LDS literature, Gospel Principles: Chapter 46, page 271.

I know that God and Christ will judge righteously in His saints. And we shall be judged by our words, as well as our works; that is why I write conservatively and in accordance with His word. The hope for Israel which I share is His hope also; namely, that the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be converted to Christ, the Holy One of Israel.

[Bensalem]

The word of God in scripture and through latter-day prophets is also clear that physical Israel is not replaced and displaced by the LDS church.

Certainly, the covenants we maintain and the word of God we honor will be either our blessing or our condemnation. This is true for all the faithful whatever stick they hold their faith up against.

My faith remains that the LDS church is the threshold of Israel's birthright, which continues in Joseph and his sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

My faith remains in a Jerusalem of twelve gates and that much will be learned as to who shall pass through each gate.

My faith remains in one Israel firmly situated in Christ and His Church.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Bensalem

[rameumptom]

Your insisting that for the Jews it is either celestial or telestial kingdom shows that your insistence and statements are incomplete.

Salvation is salvation. Exaltation is exaltation. Each individual will receive that level of salvation that he/she is willing and ready to accept. Exaltation would be a miserable existence for the individual who is not interested in exaltation (see Mormon 9:4, Alma 12). One does not have to be exalted to be a member of the House of Israel, as they followed the Terrestrial Mosaic Law for thousands of years. In the Millennium, many will continue in their own Terrestrial religions and be part of that kingdom on earth. They will be the "honorable" people of the earth, who were not valiant in their testimonies (D&C 76), but still considered friends of Christ.

Gospel Principles is simplified in order to teach the newest of converts. Bible Dictionary is aged and written according to how the gospel was viewed and taught 30 years ago, and so must be taken with a grain of salt.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Certainly, the covenants we maintain and the word of God we honor will be either our blessing or our condemnation. This is true for all the faithful whatever stick they hold their faith up against.

My faith remains that the LDS church is the threshold of Israel's birthright, which continues in Joseph and his sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

My faith remains in a Jerusalem of twelve gates and that much will be learned as to who shall pass through each gate.

My faith remains in one Israel firmly situated in Christ and His Church.

I appreciate your comments and discussion with Rameumptom because it is deeper than I could really participate in and has allowed me to ponder it more. I am curious though why you think Jesus has to physically rule and establish His rule from the physical location, Jerusalem at the second coming. Why could He not rule from any location or any temple? Why does the temple in Jerusalem specifically have to be rebuilt there and not somewhere else in your opinion?

Because I too, tend to think of "Israel" in the 'children of Christ' and priesthood sense more than I do a physically, genetically related and physical land sense. But, at the same time I know there is some significance to the physical, just hard to appreciate and comprehend. I am more of a "the home is where your heart is" kind of person.

[rameumptom]

SS,

All things must be fulfilled both in a physical and spiritual sense. When Joseph and Oliver received the Aaronic Priesthood from John the Baptist, we need to remember that he said,

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness. (D&C 13:1)

Bensalem is focusing on the spiritual fulfillment, as noted by his focusing on Joseph's sons Manasseh and Ephraim. But here we can see that in the physical fulfillment (as well as spiritual) there is also other tribes that we do not yet have functioning: such as the Levitical priests, who must offer up a sacrifice. We are not certain whether this is an animal sacrifice or not, but Joseph Smith did believe so.

Where will the animal sacrifice occur? In one of our modern Mormon temples? No. They are designed for Melchizedek Priesthood work, and animal sacrifice is a part of the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood. The temple in Jerusalem was focused on the Levitical priesthood anciently, and will probably be designed with sacrificial altars, as well. Animal sacrifice was also a part of the MP worship anciently, as we see with Adam, Abraham and Lehi in the wilderness.

If we take Isaiah 2 literally and in a modern LDS reading, "for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem" would mean that both Zion in America and Jerusalem in the Old World will be centers for Christ to lead from. People in Isaiah's day would have understood Zion to be the capitol of the northern kingdom of Israel. In those days, there were two types of Levitical priests, sons of Aaron and sons of Moses. King David had two high priests, Zadok and Abiathar, one from Aaron and one from Moses. Solomon exiled Abiathar out of Jerusalem for supporting his brother for king. When the nation divided under Solomon's son, Rehoboam, each focused their version of worship based upon their priests.

From there, Jerusalem's worship became more and more geared and centered on the temple, partially in an effort to force people to follow the Aaronic priests and their reading of the scriptures. In King Josiah's day, the priests "discovered" the book of Deuteronomy in the temple while refurbishing it. Most scholars today believe they found fragments of it, which they then expanded into a larger work that supported their temple-centric worship. This led Josiah to destroy the altars in the high places, where people had worshiped Yahweh for centuries.

Meanwhile, the Mosaic priests gained power in the Northern Kingdom, especially after the division of the nation into two. Jeremiah is believed to be a Mosaic priest, who gained power under Hezekiah, when that king regained much of the former northern kingdom. Later, he would condemn the Jerusalem priests and their temple worship, and praise the Rechabites, who were righteous nomads that worshiped Yahweh in the wilderness and in high places (very similar to what Lehi did - and Lehi's family would have been from the northern kingdom).

Having said a lot of stuff here, we need to realize that all points are important. All will be restored, including the things that Bensalem is focusing upon, but also much more than that. Both spiritual and physical Israel will receive the blessings of God, and one day they will unite into being one and the same people. But until that day, there is much prophesy regarding both AND the temple(s).

[Seminarysnoozer]

SS,

All things must be fulfilled both in a physical and spiritual sense. When Joseph and Oliver received the Aaronic Priesthood from John the Baptist, we need to remember that he said,

Bensalem is focusing on the spiritual fulfillment, as noted by his focusing on Joseph's sons Manasseh and Ephraim. But here we can see that in the physical fulfillment (as well as spiritual) there is also other tribes that we do not yet have functioning: such as the Levitical priests, who must offer up a sacrifice. We are not certain whether this is an animal sacrifice or not, but Joseph Smith did believe so.

Where will the animal sacrifice occur? In one of our modern Mormon temples? No. They are designed for Melchizedek Priesthood work, and animal sacrifice is a part of the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood. The temple in Jerusalem was focused on the Levitical priesthood anciently, and will probably be designed with sacrificial altars, as well. Animal sacrifice was also a part of the MP worship anciently, as we see with Adam, Abraham and Lehi in the wilderness.

If we take Isaiah 2 literally and in a modern LDS reading, "for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem" would mean that both Zion in America and Jerusalem in the Old World will be centers for Christ to lead from. People in Isaiah's day would have understood Zion to be the capitol of the northern kingdom of Israel. In those days, there were two types of Levitical priests, sons of Aaron and sons of Moses. King David had two high priests, Zadok and Abiathar, one from Aaron and one from Moses. Solomon exiled Abiathar out of Jerusalem for supporting his brother for king. When the nation divided under Solomon's son, Rehoboam, each focused their version of worship based upon their priests.

From there, Jerusalem's worship became more and more geared and centered on the temple, partially in an effort to force people to follow the Aaronic priests and their reading of the scriptures. In King Josiah's day, the priests "discovered" the book of Deuteronomy in the temple while refurbishing it. Most scholars today believe they found fragments of it, which they then expanded into a larger work that supported their temple-centric worship. This led Josiah to destroy the altars in the high places, where people had worshiped Yahweh for centuries.

Meanwhile, the Mosaic priests gained power in the Northern Kingdom, especially after the division of the nation into two. Jeremiah is believed to be a Mosaic priest, who gained power under Hezekiah, when that king regained much of the former northern kingdom. Later, he would condemn the Jerusalem priests and their temple worship, and praise the Rechabites, who were righteous nomads that worshiped Yahweh in the wilderness and in high places (very similar to what Lehi did - and Lehi's family would have been from the northern kingdom).

Having said a lot of stuff here, we need to realize that all points are important. All will be restored, including the things that Bensalem is focusing upon, but also much more than that. Both spiritual and physical Israel will receive the blessings of God, and one day they will unite into being one and the same people. But until that day, there is much prophesy regarding both AND the temple(s).

Yes, good points. I knew that you understood that. I was curious what he thought about the need to establish Jerusalem there.

[Bensalem]

Yes, good points. I knew that you understood that. I was curious what he thought about the need to establish Jerusalem there.

As Rameumptom pointed out, the scriptures tell us that "...the word of God shall come out of Jerusalem." For me this means that Jerusalem is where the word of God comes out of...so, the LDS church is the New Jerusalem since we have and speak the word of God in our prophets, apostles, and priest.

When the LDS church, in its holy Melchizedek priesthood, governs the City of Jerusalem in the Middle East, then the physical Jerusalem well be united with the spiritual Jerusalem in fulfillment of scripture. Even as in the resurrection when the physical body is united again with the spiritual body, Jerusalem will be made whole in Christ.

I don't believe that the "offering in righteousness" foretold of the Jewish priesthood (Levitical/Aaronic) will be the return to animal sacrifice in a temple built by the Jewish state. The offering that would be most righteous in the sight of God would be an offering of humility toward the higher authority of the Melchizedek priesthood in the LDS church. This would be comparable to the humility shown by their father Abraham when he bent his knee and bowed his head at the hands of Melchizedek who blessed him.

Likewise, the Jewish people need to bow before the authority which is greater than theirs.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have been doing some pondering about my own question. I think one of the possible reasons that location is important is that God fights the battle where Satan finds his treasures. Anciently, and even a little now, Israel was the crossroads between Africa, Asia, and Europe. So, any evil minded, power hungry, money loving group or individual would find that location a prized possession. Likewise, now the United States is also viewed in a similar way and so the center of the action may seem like it is here from time to time. Of course, the battle takes place everywhere but the focus seems to be where Satan has his focus on the things of this world.

I understand that there are prophesies about the physical reconstruction of Jerusalem it's just understanding why "Jerusalem" couldn't be in some other location and must be in the same physical location as it was previously. What is the importance of that same location it was before? I'm sure the "spiritual body, Jerusalem" as Bensalem puts it could meet the reconstructed physical "Jerusalem" anywhere on the planet to be "made whole in Christ."

[Bensalem]

I have been doing some pondering about my own question. I think one of the possible reasons that location is important is that God fights the battle where Satan finds his treasures. Anciently, and even a little now, Israel was the crossroads between Africa, Asia, and Europe. So, any evil minded, power hungry, money loving group or individual would find that location a prized possession. Likewise, now the United States is also viewed in a similar way and so the center of the action may seem like it is here from time to time. Of course, the battle takes place everywhere but the focus seems to be where Satan has his focus on the things of this world.

I understand that there are prophesies about the physical reconstruction of Jerusalem it's just understanding why "Jerusalem" couldn't be in some other location and must be in the same physical location as it was previously. What is the importance of that same location it was before? I'm sure the "spiritual body, Jerusalem" as Bensalem puts it could meet the reconstructed physical "Jerusalem" anywhere on the planet to be "made whole in Christ."

I think it can only be a resurrected Jerusalem; meaning, an act of God is necessary. Man cannot give Him the Jerusalem He desires. Presently there are three faiths struggling for their ideas about what Jerusalem should be. I don't think it will be decided until the time promised when weapons will be smelted to form plow-shears. Only after the great tribulation when Christ shows Himself triumphant will Jerusalem in the Middle-East live in a converted world.

[jjepsen]

Hey you all forgot about Jackson County Missouri, the future site of Zion in this part of the world!

I think we're past the expiration date of that J.S. prophecy in D&C given in 1832

4.Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

Unfortunately the last person from that era (generation) died by 1935 so we are 80+ late.

[FunkyTown]

Hey you all forgot about Jackson County Missouri, the future site of Zion in this part of the world!

I think we're past the expiration date of that J.S. prophecy in D&C given in 1832

4.Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.

Unfortunately the last person from that era (generation) died by 1935 so we are 80+ late.

Mark 13:30

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

That's about nineteen hundred and fifty years out of date by your reckoning. Are you suggesting that the end times will never come in accordance to prophecy?

[jjepsen]

Mark 13:30

That's about nineteen hundred and fifty years out of date by your reckoning. Are you suggesting that the end times will never come in accordance to prophecy?

Mark 13:30 'in this generation has no correlation to the JS 'in this generation" new temple prophecy of 1832.

On March 10, 1861, Apostle of God, George A. Smith stated: "Who is there that is prepared for this move back to the centre stake of Zion.... let me remind you that it is predicted that this generation shall not pass away till a temple shall be built, and the glory of the Lord rest upon it, according to the promises" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p.344).

1870: Apostle of God, Orson Pratt stated (in part)

... a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening.... But says the objector, "thirty-nine years have passed away." What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled (vol. 14, p.275).

"in this generation" meant "in this generation"

As late as 1935 Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became president of the church, maintained that the revelation would be fulfilled: I firmly believe that there will be some of that generation who were living when this revelation was given who shall be living when this temple is reared.... I have full confidence in the word of the Lord and that it shall not fail" (The Way to Perfection, 1935, p.270).

In a more recent book, however, Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "It is also reasonable to believe that no soul living in 1832, is still living in mortality on the earth" (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 4, p.112).

*Church of Christ owns 'Temple Lot', site of JS prophecy, and they are not about to sell to the LDS so no LDS Zion temple will ever be built there.

It is what it is...

Edited January 31, 2011 by jjepsen

[Bensalem]

Mark 13:30 'in this generation has no correlation to the JS 'in this generation" new temple prophecy of 1832.

On March 10, 1861, Apostle of God, George A. Smith stated: "Who is there that is prepared for this move back to the centre stake of Zion.... let me remind you that it is predicted that this generation shall not pass away till a temple shall be built, and the glory of the Lord rest upon it, according to the promises" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p.344).

1870: Apostle of God, Orson Pratt stated (in part)

... a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening.... But says the objector, "thirty-nine years have passed away." What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled (vol. 14, p.275).

"in this generation" meant "in this generation"

As late as 1935 Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became president of the church, maintained that the revelation would be fulfilled: I firmly believe that there will be some of that generation who were living when this revelation was given who shall be living when this temple is reared.... I have full confidence in the word of the Lord and that it shall not fail" (The Way to Perfection, 1935, p.270).

In a more recent book, however, Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "It is also reasonable to believe that no soul living in 1832, is still living in mortality on the earth" (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 4, p.112).

*Church of Christ owns 'Temple Lot', site of JS prophecy, and they are not about to sell to the LDS so no LDS Zion temple will ever be built there.

It is what it is...

A biblical generation is longer than the time span of human life. We are all still of Adam's generation as God's creation. We are still of Noah's generation as people born into the covenant of accountability (Genesis 9:5). Muslims, Jews, and Christians are of Abraham's generation and the saints of Jesus' first church, as well as, those of the LDS church are of Jacob's (Israel's) generation.

I look at generations as paralleling dispensations of the word of God. The dispensation that began with Joseph Smith will live to the end times. The LDS church represents Christ’s generation. When the world is converted to Christ and His Church there will be amble time to see the prophecy you mention fulfilled.

Christ said all which was spoken in His name will be fulfilled. I believe Him; eternity has no generational constraints.

[jjepsen]

A biblical generation is longer than the time span of human life. We are all still of Adam's generation as God's creation. We are still of Noah's generation as people born into the covenant of accountability (Genesis 9:5). Muslims, Jews, and Christians are of Abraham's generation and the saints of Jesus' first church, as well as, those of the LDS church are of Jacob's (Israel's) generation.

I look at generations as paralleling dispensations of the word of God. The dispensation that began with Joseph Smith will live to the end times. The LDS church represents Christ’s generation. When the world is converted to Christ and His Church there will be amble time to see the prophecy you mention fulfilled.

Christ said all which was spoken in His name will be fulfilled. I believe Him; eternity has no generational constraints.

Who are we as normal people to question the LDS apostles Smith, Pratt and prophet JFS who were speakers of God? Those men were certainly closer to God and his word than you or I and they made it very clear it was to be in that generation.

It's easy to play armchair quarterback 180 years after the fact that it didn't happen; but I guarantee, you would not have had the same biblical attitude and challenge those men if you were living during their time.

Church of Christ has owned 'Temple Lot', site of the LDS new Zion temple, since 1867. no Zion temple will be built in any generation. That's just the way it is...

[rameumptom]

Some think it is a prophesy that failed. I see it as a commandment given to the Saints, and they failed. They were to build a temple in that generation on the site, but did not purify themselves enough to accomplish the task.

It is on the same concept of Jonah dreading to warn Nineveh of destruction. It wasn't a prophesy he gave them, but a warning/commandment. Since they repented, they were not destroyed.

[Guest LDS_Guy_1986]

Mark 13:30 'in this generation has no correlation to the JS 'in this generation" new temple prophecy of 1832.

On March 10, 1861, Apostle of God, George A. Smith stated: "Who is there that is prepared for this move back to the centre stake of Zion.... let me remind you that it is predicted that this generation shall not pass away till a temple shall be built, and the glory of the Lord rest upon it, according to the promises" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p.344).

1870: Apostle of God, Orson Pratt stated (in part)

... a temple will be reared on the spot that has been selected, and the corner-stone of which has been laid, in the generation when this revelation was given; we just as much expect this as we expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening.... But says the objector, "thirty-nine years have passed away." What of that? The generation has not passed away; all the people that were living thirty-nine years ago have not passed away; but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled (vol. 14, p.275).

"in this generation" meant "in this generation"

As late as 1935 Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became president of the church, maintained that the revelation would be fulfilled: I firmly believe that there will be some of that generation who were living when this revelation was given who shall be living when this temple is reared.... I have full confidence in the word of the Lord and that it shall not fail" (The Way to Perfection, 1935, p.270).

In a more recent book, however, Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "It is also reasonable to believe that no soul living in 1832, is still living in mortality on the earth" (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 4, p.112).

*Church of Christ owns 'Temple Lot', site of JS prophecy, and they are not about to sell to the LDS so no LDS Zion temple will ever be built there.

It is what it is...

First off this is silly to an LDS member because the prophetic words of Joseph Smith are the words of Christ in our opinion.

But explain though how Christ can say he will return in "this generation" and almost 2000 years after the deaths of the Apostles still not of returned but the same cannot apply when Christ speaks through his chosen Prophet.

I have no doubt that JS or any other man might have believed the prophecy was literal. The Apostles literally believed that Christ would return before they died. In fact the Apostles never bothered to record the life of Christ for many years after his death assuming that he would be back in a few years.

It wasn't until they realized that there lives would end before he returned that they focused on recording his life and ministry in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

You cannot seriously attack one prophecy and ignore the other, it is a complete double standard.

[Guest LDS_Guy_1986]

Some think it is a prophesy that failed. I see it as a commandment given to the Saints, and they failed. They were to build a temple in that generation on the site, but did not purify themselves enough to accomplish the task.

It is on the same concept of Jonah dreading to warn Nineveh of destruction. It wasn't a prophesy he gave them, but a warning/commandment. Since they repented, they were not destroyed.

It is also important to note that later revelation in the D&C state that the Saints are not to build a temple in Zion because that area is lost to them for a season. They are instructed to go to Illinois and build a temple in Nauvoo instead. God says the saints will be told when the time to return to Zion and built a temple is come.

[volgadon]

It is what it is...

And it is the same wording as that of Matthew 24.

[rameumptom]

The way the New Testament, or most of it, is written denotes a belief that the 2nd Coming of Christ was imminent. Christ in Matthew 24 and others believed that the 2nd Coming was to come within that generation.

Even Paul's prophesy of the apostasy, where Satan would sit on the throne of God in the temple, was fulfilled in many ancient Christians' minds by Nero. IOW, we reinterpret many failed prophesies in light of the events that have followed. We can only hope that our interpretation of the scripture is correct!