Question

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Mar 2 2004, 07:45 PM

Warning...I admit to having not read all of the replies. With that said, take this next statement for what it's worth.

ABC is showing Judas. Might be interested to watch and then converse.

Oooooo! Judas looks pretty cute! I think I'll be tuning in for this movie! (Sounds like ABC used quite a bit of "artistic license" in telling the tale, but maybe it will be good!

[Behunin]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 2 2004, 06:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 2 2004, 06:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Mar 2 2004, 05:15 PM

Maybe some people just can’t help being the people they are.

Would that apply to homosexuals?

"I gotta be me, I gotta be me"

(that is a line from an old song, I think Sinatra used to sing it)

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Mar 2 2004, 07:45 PM

Warning...I admit to having not read all of the replies. With that said, take this next statement for what it's worth.

ABC is showing Judas. Might be interested to watch and then converse.

I saw the trailer for this TV movie last night.

I would like to watch it, even if it is not in Aramaic.

Heck, as long as it doesn't use King James English, I'll be happy.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 1 2004, 05:02 PM

I believe the church teaches Judas as a betrayer...what do the scriptures teach?

Matt. 10: 4

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matt. 27: 3

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Mark 3: 19

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Mark 14: 10

10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.

Luke 6: 16

16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

Luke 22: 3

3 ¶ Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Luke 22: 48

48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

this one really tells us that even Christ saw him as a traitor/betrayer..

The real conversation went something like this:

Not with a kiss, you idiot! Besides, how many times did I tell you, you walk up to Peter and point at him. Can't you get anything right?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Cal+Mar 7 2004, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Mar 7 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Mar 1 2004, 05:02 PM

I believe the church teaches Judas as a betrayer...what do the scriptures teach?

Matt. 10: 4

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matt. 27: 3

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Mark 3: 19

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Mark 14: 10

10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.

Luke 6: 16

16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

Luke 22: 3

3 ¶ Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Luke 22: 48

48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

this one really tells us that even Christ saw him as a traitor/betrayer..

The real conversation went something like this:

Not with a kiss, you idiot! Besides, how many times did I tell you, you walk up to Peter and point at him. Can't you get anything right?

LOL!

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 7 2004, 05:24 PM

I believe the church teaches Judas as a betrayer...what do the scriptures teach?

Matt. 10: 4

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matt. 27: 3

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Mark 3: 19

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Mark 14: 10

10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.

Luke 6: 16

16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

Luke 22: 3

3 ¶ Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Luke 22: 48

48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

this one really tells us that even Christ saw him as a traitor/betrayer..

The real conversation went something like this:

Not with a kiss, you idiot! Besides, how many times did I tell you, you walk up to Peter and point at him. Can't you get anything right?

LOL!

I thought you might appreciate that, Peace

[Guest Starsky]

Thanks.

[Jenda]

This is what a friend of mine responded when I asked this question on another board I post on.

"The scriptures are fairly clear that Judas was lost because he betrayed the fulness of Christ.

D&C 76 calls those who deny both the Holy Spirit and the Son (after having had them revealed by God) the sons of perdition. Satan was called Perdition earlier in this section.

4a Thus saith the Lord, concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves, through the power of the Devil, to be overcome, and to deny the truth, and defy my power;

4b they are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say it had been better for them never to have been born;

4c for they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the Devil and his angels, in eternity, concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come;

4d having denied the Holy Spirit, after having received it, and having denied the only begotten Son of the Father;

(verses 31-36 LDS)

III Nephi 13:9 (3 Ne. 27: 32 LDS) states:

But behold, it sorroweth me because of the fourth generation from this generation, for they are led away captive by him, even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver, and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt, and which thieves can break through and steal.

So, it appears that there was one called "Perdition" (Lucifer), many who are called sons of perdition (those who deny the Holy Spirit after having received it), and one specific son of perdition.

Who is this one son of perdition to whom the errant Nephites were compared by Christ himself? I think the answer lies in Christ's prayer for his disciples.

The 17th chapter of John begins with this note:

Christ prayeth to his Father to glorify him -- To keep his apostles in unity and truth, and all other believers, with him...

The chapter goes on to record this prayer:

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name; those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

So...we find that Christ prayed that his apostles might be kept as one with the Father. He declared that none of them is lost except for the son of perdition. I believe that was Judas.

Judas did return the money to the priests, but he did so only after the condemnation of Jesus. Perhaps he didn't think Jesus would be condemned to die.

Matthew 27:3-4

Then Judas, who had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.

Both the Luke and John accounts, however, state that Satan entered into the heart of Judas. Judas, after having "known surely that I came out from thee" hearkened to Perdition, and he became his son. He could no longer be a son of God. The fact that he hanged himself instead of falling down at the feet of the Savior in repentance testifies to his spiritual destruction. I have no doubt that Judas is lost. "

[Guest Starsky]

Informative Post Jenda...thanks. :)