Is This What Gun Grabbers Want In The Usa?

[Outshined]

Australia would be my second choice, but there is no wrestling there for the kid

I take it you're not including wrestling crocodiles...

"Crikey! She packs a wallop!"

[CaptainTux]

East St Louis is still far better than about 80% of the world for all it's faults. I have hung drywall in East St Louis and taught intro to computers there in a computer lap I helped establish and I am *gasp* white.

Despite the poverty in our terms and despite the crime...most of the impoverished there still have TV's (with Cable), one apartment with at least two bedrooms per family, more than one change of clothing, at the very least..one meal per day, access to health care (limited and subject to long lines in county hospital, but exists), access to schools (not as good as other schools HERE, but they got desks and books), and there is enough disposable income to buy drugs....most of the things I have listed you will not find in the third world. What we call poverty and filth is what more than half the world would consider opulence. To say we are all doomed is an obvious remark, it does not make any of us clever, despite the fact the deep people in universities and the black turtlenecks in poetry houses think it does...it just keeps us in the dark. It is perfectly easy to be cynical, it is hard to make the world a better place.

If you do want to see third world conditions here in America, it is not in the inner cities, it is the Appalachia. Even now, though, we are making dramatic steps in improving things there...there is still a lot of work to be done and countless unknown families and stories there, but the past few decades we have started to wake up to the area.

If I could choose anywhere in the world...well, I like it here in the Chicago Area...if forced to leave the US...the Czech Republic would be nice. Has nothing to do with liberty, just pretty architecture.

[sgallan]

You'll note I always say "industrialized" or sometimes "first world" when making such comparisons. I like it here because it is my homeland and a first world nation. But I think other nations are better places to live. They are more humane and less violent then we are generally speaking.

[Dror]

Suppose Michael Moore has armed security?

Michael Moore not only owns a gun, but he's a lifelong member of the NRA. In fact, in "Bowling for Columbine" he makes note of the fact the Canadians have a much lower per-capita violent crime rate than we do in the U.S., even though they have plenty of guns. Most of his movie seems to consist primarily of asking uncomfortable questions about the role of guns and violence in our society. The main conclusion he comes to is what PC said: the problem is fear.

If some "youth" tried beating up a guy in Texas, I can't help wondering if they would end up having a shootout, with 10 people dead, instead of one.

[Outshined]

We're such a litigious society that if that happened here, the victim's family would sue the bus company, the city, and everyone on the bus who didn't stop it...

[CaptainTux]

sgallan,

Forgive me, I had not noticed you were sticking with industrialized and 1st world rankings.

I am a patriot, CS Lewis' book "The Four Loves" speaks of the patriotism as being natural. Loathing for one's homeland seems to be trendy in universities these days. Pampered spoiled brats who have everything, including cable tv and credit and maybe even a little overweight bug me.

I have more stamps on my passport than the average bear and I have sees a lot of places. Though I think Australia is cool, Istanbul is wondrous, Prague freaking gorgeous, and so on... I have to say that it would take a lot for me to want to leave here. I spent the first five years of my life living in Germany a few miles away from the US Army base in Frankfort and I have lived in London and Istanbul for a time as well. Here suits me just fine.

Every place has its good points and it's dark sides. There is no nirvana here on earth. There was a place near the tigress and Euphrates...but that is blocked off by a sword now from what I here.

[sgallan]

I like it here. If I really hated it I would find a way to be gone. And you are right in that there are no nirvana's. I just think there are nicer socieites/nations to live in. For example I am without health insurance at the moment. One little accident and I could be ruined. Ignore a pain or health precurser because I can't afford it and I am dead. That and our crime rates, recividism in the prisons, incarceration rates, and so forth are abyssmal. So yeah, given those circumstances, and given my kids future in athletics, as well as education is good there, all makes Canada a good choice. Will I make it happen? Probably not right away, but if say the kid ends up in college there, then probably. It is a better fit for my political and personal values.

[CaptainTux]

Questions:

If you did move to Canada, the increase you have in taxes would decrease your disposable income for whatever pleasures or necessities you enjoy. How much are you willing to sacrifice for the government provided bennies?

Also, will you so as so many Canadians do when they are sick and cross the border for certain things they need now that the government says they can wait 6-10 months or longer for?

I am not slamming the concept, I just know a few Canadians of various Provinces and know that-like everything- the bennies come with trade offs. The ones that move here did so so they could better provide for their families and have the opportunity to start a business or make more money in their profession and keep more of their paycheck or have access to health care at will.

[sgallan]

If yo9u did move to Canada, the increase you have in taxes would decrease your disposable income for whatever pleasures or necessities you enjoy. How much are you willing to sacrifice for the government provided bennies?

Health insurance would be nice. I am a single parent afterall. Now if I didn't have the kid it wouldn't be such an issue. If I die, I die. But until then it is.

Also, will you so as so many Canadians do when they are sick and cross the border for certain things they need now that the government says they can wait 6-10 months or longer for?

Beats the alternative...... going to the doctor when I can no longer wait just to be told.... it is to late. Or bankruptsy under the new laws.

[Fiannan]

If some "youth" tried beating up a guy in Texas, I can't help wondering if they would end up having a shootout, with 10 people dead, instead of one.

A family I knew a few years back heard a prowler in the backyard early in the morning. The wife was alone except for a 12 gage. She opened the main door (leaving the screen still latched) and pulled back the lever mechanism loading the shells (forgive me, I think you know what I mean if I'm getting any terminology wrong). The prowler (or who knows what the guy had on his mind) immediately flew over the tall fence. The sound alone did the trick.

If you had a gun (concealed weapons permit) and didn't do anything to help a guy being beaten to death I believe you could face felony charges in the state I am from. Many states have "good Samaritain" laws which might also apply if you did not have a weapon and did nothing.

Such laws would greatly confound most Europeans since the state does not want you to interfere. I don't think we want that to happen here.

[sgallan]

We can play the example game forever. I have two first cousins I was close too who blew their brains out. Both did so while intoxicated/on drugs with easy access to guns. Too easy. Is this an argument for gun control..... nah, I am not for it. Just showing these examples are endless and go both ways.

[Fiannan]

That is true. I knew a family in Sweden (well, they lived there -- his native country, not hers -- until they just couldn't survive the taxes and prices) and he was a train operator. Almost all of the train/subway personnel there have had what they call a jumper -- a person who ends their life by jumping in front of a train.

Every country has its problems and its good points. I would rather follow the good examples rather than the bad.

In fiarness, Sweden's educational system is far superior to the USA because they have a voucher system -- something President Bush gives good lip service to. Mexicans have a superior family identification ethic and tend to place family before materialism. I could go on and on.

[Dror]

I am a patriot, CS Lewis' book "The Four Loves" speaks of the patriotism as being natural. Loathing for one's homeland seems to be trendy in universities these days. Pampered spoiled brats who have everything, including cable tv and credit and maybe even a little overweight bug me.

I have more stamps on my passport than the average bear and I have sees a lot of places. Though I think Australia is cool, Istanbul is wondrous, Prague freaking gorgeous, and so on... I have to say that it would take a lot for me to want to leave here. I spent the first five years of my life living in Germany a few miles away from the US Army base in Frankfort and I have lived in London and Istanbul for a time as well. Here suits me just fine.

Every place has its good points and it's dark sides. There is no nirvana here on earth. There was a place near the tigress and Euphrates...but that is blocked off by a sword now from what I here.

It's kinda like my family. I complain about them, know their weaknesses and strengths, and can really get hurt or ticked off by them (or do it to them, for that matter). But I love them more than anybody else, and wouldn't trade them for anybody else. I like other people, too, and have friends and enjoy visiting them, but there's nothing I like better than hanging out with "The Fam." Same with my country.

Dror

[CaptainTux]

Well said, Dror. Very well said.