God proves

[DPMartin]

Men don’t prove God (no matter how you look at the word prove) God proves men. God doesn’t have to prove men to be in error, it’s a given that men are in error. So what is it that God values that He would take the time and invest in proving men?

[JudoMinja]

I feel like delving into a word again. What does it mean to "prove"?

The word has Latin origins- from the word probus, which most accurately translates to "good".

When thinking of God proving man, I believe the word prove is most accurately taken in the context of this definition:

"to turn out to be a particular thing or a thing of a particular character after time or testing".

God is developing our character- or rather molding and shaping us into something of His design.

[Dravin]

Men don’t prove God (no matter how you look at the word prove) God proves men.

One of the ways we can look at the word prove is as a synonym for testing. In particular consider definition #1 found here: Prove - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary ( aspects of definition 2 and 3 are also applicable).

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Men do prove God (in the former scripture they are being invited to test his nature to see if it is what he says it is, and in the later scripture they are being invited by Christ to prove/test doctrine), not that their discovery makes God valid or true, but that in the testing man comes to know God. If I test to see if (or prove) a lump of gold to see if it is such, my testing does not make the metal gold, it was such before the test, what the testing does is confirm to the tester what already was. In such a sense man proves God, that initial testing is the first step in Faith. Something as simple as praying to know if Christ is the Savior, or if God is there, hinges upon the nature of God and as such tests God. I suppose one could argue that's testing men by asking God, but the simplest of prayers, "God, are you there?" is a direct test into his nature.

In short, man proves God inasmuch as he tests his nature to learn it for himself.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Dravin

[DPMartin]

I feel like delving into a word again. What does it mean to "prove"?

The word has Latin origins- from the word probus, which most accurately translates to "good".

When thinking of God proving man, I believe the word prove is most accurately taken in the context of this definition:

"to turn out to be a particular thing or a thing of a particular character after time or testing".

God is developing our character- or rather molding and shaping us into something of His design.

JudoMinja

thanks for the reply

Well in this sense of the word prove: To find out, learn, or know by experience; to have experience of, to experience, ‘go through’, suffer; also with compl., to find by experience (a person or thing) to be (something) as the Lord did with Abraham.

Gen:22:12: And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

And so does the Lord God do with all His chosen.

Or in the sense of to make trial of, put to the test; to try the genuineness or qualities of; to try, test. arch. exc. in technical uses. Isn’t the genuineness or qualities of tested by fire?

Mt:3:11: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

I believe God proves us to be His, by testing or proving out that which is of Him is in us. Of which He could easily see and or recognize.

( I used OED in reliance of the “King’s English” since I read KJV and nether change.)

[DPMartin]

One of the ways we can look at the word prove is as a synonym for testing. In particular consider definition #1 found here: Prove - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary ( aspects of definition 2 and 3 are also applicable).

Men do prove God (in the former scripture they are being invited to test his nature to see if it is what he says it is, and in the later scripture they are being invited by Christ to prove/test doctrine), not that their discovery makes God valid or true, but that in the testing man comes to know God. If I test to see if (or prove) a lump of gold to see if it is such, my testing does not make the metal gold, it was such before the test, what the testing does is confirm to the tester what already was. In such a sense man proves God, that initial testing is the first step in Faith. Something as simple as praying to know if Christ is the Savior, or if God is there, hinges upon the nature of God and as such tests God. I suppose one could argue that's testing men by asking God, but the simplest of prayers, "God, are you there?" is a direct test into his nature.

In short, man proves God inasmuch as he tests his nature to learn it for himself.

Dravin

thanks for the reply

I can understand your point of testing God, but it seems to me that it’s a testing to see if what is said is of God. As many others in the Bible I think Gideon is a sound example of one who tested that this was what the Lord wanted and is of God. Though to do so is not unwise, but like you say this doesn’t prove God is, its an affirmation that what is in question is of God. But to reassert the question what is it that God values that He would take the time and invest in proving men?