Spiritual maturity/progression and the role of commandments

[jb789]

Hi all,

I have a questions/am looking for input on the role of commandments, strict laws, etc, and how they relate to spiritual maturity of a people.

When studying the Old Testament in gospel doctrine last year, I found it very interesting to note the way the gospel was presented to the children of Israel at the time. As we know, they as a collective people were not ready for the fulness of the gospel (to the point of asking Moses to commune with God at the mountain top in their place, due to fear). As such, they were given a harsh law, or "taskmaster", which was the law of moses. A primary motivator for them was fear of punishment, as such, I believe, the Old Testament seems to present a much more vengeful God than the meeker, more Christlike approach of the New Testament.

It seems throughout the course of Church history that the more spiritually mature a people are, the more they live with Christ-like attributes (patience, love, etc) as opposed to needing strict and rigid laws and moral codes. In reading some writings by Max Skousen, a very interesting comment he made was that "law is for those that are spiritually dead". While this may sound harsh at first, I believe it illustrates the point that all commandments, laws, etc, are teaching tools for pointing people in the right directions, that is, Christ. However, the laws are not ends in and of themselves, more of a spiritual "training wheels" of sorts until one has developed a more personal relationship with the Saviour and is more fully guided via direct revelations, such as the Holy Ghost/living by the Spirit.

I guess my question is, do others also agree that while the laws/commandments are important, ultimately they are stepping stones towards a more personal relationship with God and Christ? Even in the final Celestial room of the temple, it's very interesting to note that no verbal instruction is given there. Rather, we are "instructed from on High" via personal revelation.

If this is true, and I believe that it is, it would also suggest that in our own spiritual journeys we may reach the point where rigid adherence to the written "laws" alone (we should do this, shouldn't do that, etc) can become a stumbling block, as it prevents us from seeking more direct revelation from God, and to be ultimately motivated by true love for fellow men and God, as opposed to motivated by avoiding punishments or the seeking of blessings (both of which are ultimately self-centered motivations). Not that laws and commandments are not necessary, but rather that they are a lower form of spiritual instruction so to speak, which are eventually surpassed by becoming more like Christ (as in the two great commandments of love), and through living by the Spirit, which will "teach us all things we are to do".

Any thoughts on this? Thanks =)

Edited October 4, 2011 by jb789

[LeKook]

I guess my question is, do others also agree that while the laws/commandments are important, ultimately they are stepping stones towards a more personal relationship with God and Christ? Even in the final Celestial room of the temple, it's very interesting to note that no verbal instruction is given there. Rather, we are "instructed from on High" via personal revelation.

If this is true, and I believe that it is, it would also suggest that in our own spiritual journeys we may reach the point where rigid adherence to the written "laws" alone (we should do this, shouldn't do that, etc) can become a stumbling block, as it prevents us from seeking more direct revelation from God, and to be ultimately motivated by true love for fellow men and God, as opposed to motivated by avoiding punishments or the seeking of blessings (both of which are ultimately self-centered motivations). Not that laws and commandments are not necessary, but rather that they are a lower form of spiritual instruction so to speak, which are eventually surpassed by becoming more like Christ (as in the two great commandments of love), and through living by the Spirit, which will "teach us all things we are to do".

Any thoughts on this? Thanks =)

After a while trying to obey a rigid set of laws gets to be tedious, and if that's all we're doing, then our view of God will become skewed (I think). In other words, if that is all we do - if there's no growth or progression towards Christlike attributes - then we will ultimately give up even trying to obey the law because we will come to the realization that we are a)always deserving of punishment because there's no way we can get a 100 percent perfect record, and b)God will become a fixed constant of being a vengeful entity, ready to pounce on us whenever we fail.

Result "a" is the doorway to recognizing and accepting the atonement if we haven't truly understood it before reaching this point of frustration in never quite feeling like God is happy with us.

If that's as far as our view of God extends, if we're just obedient out of fear, we'll get exasperated and give up. No growth there.

Bottom line: The love of Christ transcends the law.

Once we accept that, then Christ changes us. We're no longer pinned down to a series of "do this, not that" mandates. We are free in Christ. We will live the law in our hearts because of love, instead of obeying the law out of fear.

Of course, it's taken me over 40 years to figure this out for myself. :)

But that's why I am... LeKook!

[jb789]

That's a great point, about "reaching the point of frustration" in order to finally realize the law can't save us and then we gain a real testimony of the Atonement! Interestingly enough Max Skousen, in one of his writing, suggested the same thing, that the point of the law is to bring us to this very realization that we can't do it alone. He suggested that the law/commandments are designed to be unfulfillable by man, and that they work their magic by finally, after enough continual striving to live up to all the standards/ideals, the natural man is finally "broken" and learns that Christ is the answer, not trying to be the moral superman. This is what Max Skousen termed "entering into the rest of the Lord", when the endless striving and vain attempts of the natural man to "save himself" end and we fully accept the Atonement and the peace it brings (like what you said about being "free in Christ).

[LeKook]

I'm thinking that for me personally, it came down to accepting the atonement or giving up completely and walking away from God entirely. Frustration, exasperation, sorrow, were all things I felt daily for YEARS. Nothing I could do would ever be enough to please God, who I felt was equally frustrated, exasperated, and sorrowful towards me. So we parted company for a while, until the reality that my own efforts even on my own behalf (never mind pleasing God; I couldn't even manage me!) weren't going to be enough to get me through this life unscathed.

Many reach breaking point and refuse the atonement entirely when they reach the point where they decide they will never measure up, which is exactly what the adversary wants them to do. Sometimes, he wins. Other times, as in my case, God intervenes. Who knows why?

I think that's one thing I'll never be able to get resolved in my heart, why some make it, and some don't. Or why I got another chance. I'll probably never know.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I agree with your interpretation. I look at the imposition of strict laws as simple housecleaning to ensure basic standards of behavior are kept -- for the sake of order. You have to revert to this kind of governance when people are so lawless the "kingdom" is out of control. Higher principles of trust and even self-governance against standards, in the absence of immediate punishment ,are secondary to simply restoring order.

After such order is restored and people are behaving civilly, perhaps then we can talk about higher laws and greater self-governance.

I have had to impose this in my family with my kids at different times in our household when they refuse to cooperate with keeping our house orderly. When all other forms of motivation have failed -- sheer love, persuasion, etcetera, I've had to implement immediate unpleasant consequences for non-compliance. I've had to implement strict rules about when cleaning should be done, and what "clean" actually means. This is to at least get things back into a state of order again. Basically, if we stop governing ourselves properly, then we lose the right to do so -- and someone else will do it for us eventually.

That's how I look at the Law of Moses, almost like a form of spiritual martial law.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Hi all,

I have a questions/am looking for input on the role of commandments, strict laws, etc, and how they relate to spiritual maturity of a people.

When studying the Old Testament in gospel doctrine last year, I found it very interesting to note the way the gospel was presented to the children of Israel at the time. As we know, they as a collective people were not ready for the fulness of the gospel (to the point of asking Moses to commune with God at the mountain top in their place, due to fear). As such, they were given a harsh law, or "taskmaster", which was the law of moses. A primary motivator for them was fear of punishment, as such, I believe, the Old Testament seems to present a much more vengeful God than the meeker, more Christlike approach of the New Testament.

It seems throughout the course of Church history that the more spiritually mature a people are, the more they live with Christ-like attributes (patience, love, etc) as opposed to needing strict and rigid laws and moral codes. In reading some writings by Max Skousen, a very interesting comment he made was that "law is for those that are spiritually dead". While this may sound harsh at first, I believe it illustrates the point that all commandments, laws, etc, are teaching tools for pointing people in the right directions, that is, Christ. However, the laws are not ends in and of themselves, more of a spiritual "training wheels" of sorts until one has developed a more personal relationship with the Saviour and is more fully guided via direct revelations, such as the Holy Ghost/living by the Spirit.

I guess my question is, do others also agree that while the laws/commandments are important, ultimately they are stepping stones towards a more personal relationship with God and Christ? Even in the final Celestial room of the temple, it's very interesting to note that no verbal instruction is given there. Rather, we are "instructed from on High" via personal revelation.

If this is true, and I believe that it is, it would also suggest that in our own spiritual journeys we may reach the point where rigid adherence to the written "laws" alone (we should do this, shouldn't do that, etc) can become a stumbling block, as it prevents us from seeking more direct revelation from God, and to be ultimately motivated by true love for fellow men and God, as opposed to motivated by avoiding punishments or the seeking of blessings (both of which are ultimately self-centered motivations). Not that laws and commandments are not necessary, but rather that they are a lower form of spiritual instruction so to speak, which are eventually surpassed by becoming more like Christ (as in the two great commandments of love), and through living by the Spirit, which will "teach us all things we are to do".

Any thoughts on this? Thanks =)

Most of us have to overcome our natural man tendencies to be able to focus on the spiritual side, as the natural man is an enemy to God. Like, not everybody loves broccoli the first time they have it. Sometimes through repetition and 'seeing it's good over time' and even in some cases, 'learning to like it', through faithful obedience we learn of the reasons to love it. That love is based in experiential knowledge of it's goodness. One has to stack up that experiential knowledge for a while to really get to the point of doing it out of love. We all come at this at different level depending on how much we take with us from the premortal life. This is why we hope to teach our children wisdom in their youth.

[HiJolly]

I think the basic premise is essentially good, but in practice this tends to be a huge stumbling block in terms of people falsely justifying bad behavior.

Max is a good example of this.

FYI, Max and his better known brother Cleon are cousins of mine. Both have passed away.

HiJolly