Questions I Have About Book Of Abraham

[Section41]

I'm thinking about going to a mormon church with a friend that invited me. I was browsing the internet and came across this video about the book of abraham. It claims to show evidence that joseph smith was wrong. How does the mormon church combat this claim? If you dont know what I'm talking about, here's the 6 minute video about it:

I would be interested to know what mormons think. Thanks,

S41

Section 41, we don't need links to anti-Mormon propoganda here.

If you have a specific question or three about their claims, ask them.

This was your first post, so I will assume that you simply made an error in netiguette.

Again- if you have specific questions, ask them.

Honos

[Guest AutumnBreez]

Section 41 :Read, then pray and ask God about the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham. The Internet is not God and should not take priority over Him and the communications thereof. I am not meaning this to be harsh, just please pray.

[LdsNana]

Section41-

I am more than happy to answer any question you might have about the Book of Abraham after you have read it. But I do find it interesting that you requesting a defense of us, before you have asked or heard the truth is quite interesting? You have not even attended a Mormon Church yet?

Are you a Bible believing Christian? Then you should understand the basic principle of milk before meat... Line upon line is how you need to approach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Do you read Isaiah? Can you explain Isaiah to me? How about Leviticus or lets talk about Revelations?

I would like to have you first talk more with your friend and attend church, meet with the missionaries and begin reading The Book of Mormon. This is to begin sipping the milk...

The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price is exactly that... a Pearl of Great Worth, beyond your ability to comprehend at this time. If you read it now, you will not understand it's value as you have no foundation to set it upon, to display its beauty.

Those who would at this time now, in your search for light and your desire to know and find truth, would hope to destroy any efforts on your part to ever find this PEARL in the future by throwing it up NOW, when you can't possibly understand it fully at this time and have not even had an opportunity to develop a testimony as yet...

Their goal is to place doubt and fear into your heart, which they have. The spirit cannot dwell where you have allowed fear to enter in, therefore truth cannot be taught and you are unable to find what it is you truly seek.

You need to recognize fear and doubt as a time to turn away and go in another direction... that would be toward all things that are clear and direct and cause you to SEE, and FEEL good, positive, knowing you are doing and heading toward understanding.

I truly hope that wherever your journey leads you that it will be one of light and clarity, that you will turn immediately when doubt and confusion enter in, particularly when there is negativity or contention involved that would perpetuate divisiveness.

"If ye are not one, ye are not mine". Regardless of which building we choose to Worship God in, we are all of His children, we are all brothers and sisters, and He expects us to treat each other as such...

tdmg,

gVr

[Dale]

I have the Lost Book of Abraham film on DVD from Living Hope Ministries. I have watched the film several time's.The LDS church stay's away from trying to combat the claim. Though some private LDS organization's like FAIR has put together research on such claim's. Benjamin McGuire reviewed the film when it came out. FAIR has a Topical Guide with his review, and a number of other articles on the subject you can read. http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai125.html

Some feel some intellectual evidences for the Book of Abraham does exist. Some ancient Abrahamic lore seem's to agree with the details in the book. Some have tried to say Joseph Smith got all his ideas from 19th century, but not all of us agree with that.

Joseph Smith's facimile explanation's are wrong from an Egyptological standpoint. At FAIR's Topical Guide page go down to Other Resources for an great explanation by Kevin Barney. His essay entitled The Facimilies and Semitic Adaptation of Existing Sources is the best explanation i am aware of.

FAIR also has a link's section that lead's you to various helpful website's. Kerry Shirt's has a Mormonism Researched website which shows the ways in which Egyptology can support the very same facimile explanations.

The film witholds a lot if information from it's viewers. And a lot of unpublished research does exist refuting some of the claim's i recall in the film. I think one of the experts in the film was Dr. Robert Ritner. He argues the papyrus was to short to have a missing source of the Book of Abraham on it. But John Gee i understand a technical argument that dispute's what Ritner said about the lenght of the papyrus. He feel's plenty of room existed for a second text upon the papyrus. Most LDS seem to see the source of the Book of Abraham as coming from a missing part of the papyrus. Not everybody is convinced that the Book of Breathings found in 1967 was the source of the Book of Abraham.

So not everybody buy's into the argument that since the name of Abraham is not found on the existing papyrus that the book has been disproven. I find a lot of person's who have read the critic's best arguments against the Book of Abraham, and still believe the Book of Abraham.

[LdsNana]

Dale-

Your research AND information are excellent resources for a scholarly approach and do have a place in ones exploration of an overall understanding and knowledge pertaining to the controversy surrounding The Book of Abraham. But they cannot prove to a person that WHAT is contained in The Book of Abraham is authentic or is NOT.

That is the problem. All these resources attempting to do is contend the credibility of Joseph Smith and his ability to do what he said he did OR prove that what he did was NOT possible. NONE of them take the time to do much with the CONTENT of WHAT HE DID, WHICH IS AMAZING!

By their FRUITS ye shall KNOW them. It is the FRUITS by which we come to KNOWLEDGE of things that are TRUE.

When we become distracted and confused and contend... we never come to CONTENT, WHICH IS THE FRUIT = TRUTH AND KNOWLEDGE

INTELLIGENCE OR THE LIGHT OF TRUTH

LIGHT CLEAVETH TO LIGHT... until the perfect DAY.

Thus Satan cometh and taken away light from the children of men... and how does he do this? By distracting them.

Let us offer CONTENT, The WORKS themselves... this is HOW the BOOK of MORMON is the tool to be used.

tdmg,

gVr

[Dale]

I am not one to tell someone just to have faith. The film does present some tough objection's to the Book of Abraham that would make me unwilling to even think the book could be taken seriously. If i had not heard the arguments before i would have been unsettled by the content of the film. I don't see the scholarship as having the power to prove anything to a person. Scholarship has been a help to me as i don't now see Joseph Smith's translation of the papyrus an act of fraud. If i had no answers that satisfied i would think fraud.

I only presented the scholarly resource answer side because S41 ran into a film that said Joseph Smith was wrong on the BOA. The person requested resources, so i had to point in the best direction to find those resources. FAIR and it's FairWiki website has become the best LDS resources to find answer's on such issues. I would go to FARMS next. I don't think message boards are alway's the best place's to find answers.

I have watched the Lost Book of Abraham film from Living Hope Ministries four time's now.

All a person can do is read a religious text, and decide if it has any value for the person as scripture, or not. gvr you are of course correct in what you wrote.

[LdsNana]

I am not one to tell someone just to have faith. The film does present some tough objection's to the Book of Abraham that would make me unwilling to even think the book could be taken seriously. If i had not heard the arguments before i would have been unsettled by the content of the film. I don't see the scholarship as having the power to prove anything to a person. Scholarship has been a help to me as i don't now see Joseph Smith's translation of the papyrus an act of fraud. If i had no answers that satisfied i would think fraud.

I only presented the scholarly resource answer side because S41 ran into a film that said Joseph Smith was wrong on the BOA. The person requested resources, so i had to point in the best direction to find those resources. FAIR and it's FairWiki website has become the best LDS resources to find answer's on such issues. I would go to FARMS next. I don't think message boards are alway's the best place's to find answers.

I have watched the Lost Book of Abraham film from Living Hope Ministries four time's now.

All a person can do is read a religious text, and decide if it has any value for the person as scripture, or not. gvr you are of course correct in what you wrote.

Dale,

And you certainly served S41 well, I do believe. And this is precisely WHAT is hoped when a person comes here to the forum seeking assistance in their search for correct understanding, knowledge and ultimately the TRUTH. And that is that they will be given a balance of suggestions to aid them in their endeavor so that they may be sucessful in their journey.

Is it not wonderful that we are able to work together in order to help them accomplish that which we all hope for each other?

You know, I have spent time on other forums and I must say that so far I have felt my time spent here to be the most enjoyable as well as of service... at least I hope so.

Thanks for your post on this and your reasoning. I totally understand and agree with you too.

[Dale]

I prefer to hang out in place's where the discussion is kept friendly. I like the LDS forums so far also.

[LdsNana]

I prefer to hang out in place's where the discussion is kept friendly. I like the LDS forums so far also.

It will be interesting to see if Section41 returns and gives an update on how his search for truth is coming along. I am also hoping to ask him why he has chosen his particular handle particularly for an investigator? I can't really think of a reason why Sec 41 would be so significant. It makes me almost wonder a bit? Hmmmm...

[Dale]

Section41 may not return. It would be nice to get a return visit. I have seen instances where EV people have left posts merely to witness. They can put a link with it, and then take off never to return. It's also possible the person got the needed information. And then saw nothing to make further comments about.

I don't know if S41 ever came back. When the person did not come back i just decided to treat the post as if sincere anyway. But i knew i was possibly helping to answer a person who abandoned the post from the start. Not saying S41 motives are insincere, other sincere reason's for abandoning a post can exist. People get sick, computers can break down due to viruses, jobs can take away from computer time, ect.

The person said a friend invited him to an LDS Church. That could be. I do searches related to Mormonism at time's. And a lot of the stuff i run into is Anti-Mormon. It's easy to find film's on Mormonism pro and con if films are what you are searching for. I saw Ed Decker's Godmakers 2 on You Tube.

I also wondered about the handle. I did not think the handle sounded suspicious. Some people like tough handle's. The content of the post accompanied by a vanishing original poster made me wonder more. S41 not saying you were insincere in your post.

[LdsNana]

Section41 may not return. It would be nice to get a return visit. I have seen instances where EV people have left posts merely to witness. They can put a link with it, and then take off never to return. It's also possible the person got the needed information. And then saw nothing to make further comments about.

I don't know if S41 ever came back. When the person did not come back i just decided to treat the post as if sincere anyway. But i knew i was possibly helping to answer a person who abandoned the post from the start. Not saying S41 motives are insincere, other sincere reason's for abandoning a post can exist. People get sick, computers can break down due to viruses, jobs can take away from computer time, ect.

The person said a friend invited him to an LDS Church. That could be. I do searches related to Mormonism at time's. And a lot of the stuff i run into is Anti-Mormon. It's easy to find film's on Mormonism pro and con if films are what you are searching for. I saw Ed Decker's Godmakers 2 on You Tube.

I also wondered about the handle. I did not think the handle sounded suspicious. Some people like tough handle's. The content of the post accompanied by a vanishing original poster made me wonder more. S41 not saying you were insincere in your post.

Dale,

Then you understand my concern. Maybe I have dealt with anti's too much before coming over here. I am on the alert very easily I'm afraid. I spent quite a few months over at On Faith on Michael Ottersons threads early in the year. They play very tough ball with only a handful of us members to catch and defend the church. It was quite the experience for a new blogger. I have changed my handle here and truly enjoy this environment much better. Although I still love to advocate for the gospel of Jesus Christ when it becomes necessary on other forums. But On Faith is so extreme. Posters over there are literally nesting at this point and it is truly exhausting. They are basically a group of apostate now athiest, humanist and who are just down right angry with life. But they must be refuted as that blog is so public and they cannot be allowed to lie so publically about the church, JS and our living prophets.

Well, you get the idea I am sure.

[Dale]

I do understand your concern.