Eucharist/priesthood

[Athanasias]

I appreciate your ample response and your sincere question in regards to our priesthood and relationship to the Sacrament. I understand that 2nd century and later church writers expressed an understanding of the Sacrament that seems closer to your view. I just point to the most early evidence, including the letters from the living apostles of the Savior.

It is interesting that Paul notes that the Savior gave a commandment to perform this ordinance regularly. Christ clearly established the Sacrament, since three of the four Gospels and also Paul’s letter of 1 Corinthians contain concise reports. First Corinthians is of particular interest because it preceded the Gospels. Its date is about A.D. 57, some twenty-five years after Christ instituted the sacrament in the Upper Room. 6 In the letter, Paul repeated what he had reliably learned, introducing the account with these words: “For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you.” (1 Cor. 11:23). He later adds: "As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew [i.e., testify of] the Lord´s death till he come" (1 Cor. 11:26).

The NT indicates that the injunction was observed in the early Christian Church (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). Paul wrote the Saints at Corinth in plainness of the simple ordinance which he had received from the Lord, stressing that it was done "in remembrance of [Jesus Christ]" (1 Cor. 11:19–26; cf. Luke 22:19; 3 Ne. 18:7).

The time and setting chosen by Jesus for administering the Sacrament among his Jerusalem disciples tie this ordinance to the older observances of the Passover, including the bread and wine he used, and to which he gave new symbolism (Matt. 26:26–28; Luke 22:15–20). Through his Atonement Christ fulfilled the purpose of the ordinance of animal sacrifice found in the Old Testament, which was to prefigure the ultimate sacrifice of the Son of God. The new ordinance replaced the need for animal sacrifice with the sacrifice on the part of Christ´s followers of a broken heart and contrite spirit (3 Ne. 9:18–20).

The sermon that Jesus delivered on the topic of the "bread of life" in the Gospel of John draws on the symbolism of the Lord even deeper for the reader.

Early Christian writings suggest no change in the ancient idea of covenant. The basic dual-party promises between God and his people still took place. What changed was the type of sacrifice that put the covenant into effect. Instead of the blood sacrifices of Abraham and Moses that pre-dates or "shadows" the ultimate sacrifice of the Son of God, the Atonement itself became the transcendent reality. In Paul’s letter to the Hebrews, is where half of the New Testament uses of the Greek word for “covenant” appear. There the Apostle speaks of a “better testament” (Heb. 7:22) or a “better covenant” (Heb. 8:6) because Jesus is superior to all former sacrifices. I think there is where LDS theology departs from traditional Christianity today, more closely resembling that of the 1st century's. In our Doctrine and Covenants as well as in the Book of Mormon, the Sacrament relates to the covenant and our remembrance of it.

I certainly understand your view. I just wanted to suggest as in the previous post that, without "help" from theological or traditional sources/interpretations and based on the Gospels and NT alone, I do not get the impression that the Sacrament was meant to be literal as it came to be interpreted a bit later.

Again,, my brother, I can certainly appreciate your view and heart-felt love for the Eucharist as yo understanding. I'm sincerely grateful your kind words. It has been trully a pleasure to exchange with you on the subject. Both, baptism and the Sacrament have a profound meaning and great significance to me on account of my prior history. I am a convert to the LDS church and it was as if crawling out of a very dark and deep well and into the light. So it is always refreshing to cross impressions with others in regards to these subjects.

I would let one of the pundits on the site answer your question in regards to the Sacrament and the LDS priesthood order. I think I have done enough writing for one day.

Peace be onto you and your family as well.

PS: BTW this may be a subject where we may have to split the difference...:)

Hi and thank you very much for your kindness in responding to my question. I very much appreciate your tone and love for the Lord and all things true. I don't want to debate as I think this board is not about debating but about questions. However, I would love to show you at least where I am coming from on a biblical first century level. As a Student I have written papers on the exegesis of John and the Gospels in regards to the Eucharist and the real presense. I have also done debates with other groups. Instead of debating I will simply give you a couple of links to my writings on such things so you can at least see where we Catholics are coming from.

The first is a debate I am having with a Lutheran. My opening statement should go into plenty biblically and from the Greek and early Church on why the Eucharist is a real sacrifice. It also contains a few references to the real presense in the bible.

Here is the link: Is the Mass a Holy Sacrifice? - Christian Forums

This second link is to my myspace blogs which i have written in detail about Johns Eucharist interpretations in the Gospels and the alot more.

MySpace.com Blogs - Athanasias MySpace Blog

Feel free to write me if your on myspace! Definately read the debate for the sacrificial meaning, then read the myspace blogs for the real presense, Johns doctrine of the real presense and the priesthood and other things about Mary etc.

God bless you too my friend!

Edited July 8, 2008 by Athanasias

[Islander]

Athanasias - I am going thru the debate right now. Quite intense my friend, but very well articulated. I like your argument!! I'll keep you posted.

[Athanasias]

Athanasias - I am going thru the debate right now. Quite intense my friend, but very well articulated. I like your argument!! I'll keep you posted.

Cool. God bless you!