[john 3:16 question for mormons]

lostnfound: if I could be so bold... You started out posting here saying that you were trying to learn more about what Mormons believe, because you live and/or work in an area now where there are lots of LDS people around, and you wanted to better understand them.

However, from your posts today, I'm getting more of the impression that, rather than trying to understand us, you're trying to "save" us and point out to us the "error" of our ways. Am I correct in this assumption?

Are you really here to understand, or to prostelyte?

[john 3:16 question for mormons]

The Catholics no longer recognize Purgatory. Pope Benedict came out with a clear statement of that last year.

Joseph Smith was never Catholic.

Jesus did ascend into Heaven during the three days between his death and Resurrection. How exactly He divided His time there we only know a little. We know that He returned to the Father, and that he preached to the Dead.

[john 3:16 question for mormons]

But nowhere in the bible does it say baptisim is part of salvation. Remember the thief on the cross?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And LDS belief is that the thief went to Paradise, not Heaven, as we haven't been Judged yet. Paradise is where those who believed in Christ, *or* who didn't believe in Christ, but were still good people (like the follower of Tash in The Last Battle from the Chronicles of Narnia) will go to Paradise, where they will hear the Word of the Lord, and have the opportunity to have those of us here on Earth perform proxy baptisms in the Temple on behalf of that person so that they can enter the Kingdom of God.

[If you're looking for a wheat grinder...]

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Every store I saw online that sells the mills has this deal going on, but https://www.pleasanthillgrain.com was the cheapest I found, and you get free shipping!

[john 3:16 question for mormons]

Have you ever read through romans and James.. without the lds commentary to interepret for you? Just read through this books they are life changing books.

I find this rather condesending. I have infact read the NT, many many times, both on my own time, and with "LDS commentary" and still believe that we are Saved through Christ, but that our works play a part in it. I think the key difference is that LDS do not believe in "once saved always saved". You can accept Christ with your lips all you want, but if your heart isn't truely His (humbling yourself, repenting of sins, loving your neighbor, etc.) then it will profit you nothing. Accepting Christ means accepting ALL of Him; not just His Holy Name, but His commandments.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[Son getting baptized!]

Congratulations to your son! Is he excited?

[Hello from Washington!]

You've described perfectly what some of the fruits of the spirit are here...the comforting feeling and your heart swelling with happiness (joy). The Spirit touches us in different ways and at different times depending on our own readiness to receive it. While your heart may swell with happiness in the temple, the person next to you may only feel comfort while someone else may feel at peace from the stresses of the world. I've felt all of these in the temple or in church during hymns, or when I've helped someone in need, etc.

It is the Spirit communicating with us and strengthening us, confirming truths, speaking to our hearts, etc. Feeling the Spirit doesn't always have to be a lasting thing. It's almost as if Father in Heaven is embracing us for a moment and letting us know that He is aware of us before moving on. But we still have His light in us. I can honestly say that the more often that we communicate with Him, study the scriptures and align our will with His, the more at peace we are with the world and with Him and the more we have that happiness in our bosom.

I can also tell when the Spirit has departed from me, especially when I "slip" and sin. I feel anger, disconnected, out of place, nothing seems to go right and I get agitated. Everything feels wrong and I just have a bad day and it is because of my perspective. I realize then that it is because a portion of the Lord's Spirit that was with me is gone and I feel more alone to myself--to my own devices. I used to be really, really hard on myself and allowed my guilt to overwhelm me to the point that I thought I wasn't worth the Lord's trouble to forgive. I have learned, though, that this isn't how God wants me to be. So now I get on my knees, confess to the Lord, start reading in the scriptures, do my duties, sing hymns, whatever, to invite the Spirit back to comfort me until the days go by that the habit of the good things I just mention bring the Spirit back fully, because that sin or slip-up isn't really who I am or what is in my heart. It doesn't define me. It was a mistake and I forsake it and look forward to renewing my covenants at sacrament meeting.

Boy I can ramble...to bottom line it, from my experience, when the Lord communicates something to us, we will feel it warmly, strongly, joyfully, peacefully for a few moments. It is then that we need to listen and note the experience. Perhaps it was that hymn you were listening to or a talk you read in the Ensign or something a speaker said at church or something new you learned in temple. But otherwise for the most part you will note that with regular scripture study, constant personal prayer and aligning your will with the Lord's, your heart will feel lighter, happier, and at peace. You will be less quick to anger and more patient in things, especially with your family. You just feel....good inside. Glad of heart.

Best wishes.

Thank you so very much for your rambling post. That's all I can bring myself to say right now.

ETA: gosh that sounded snarky. it's not.

[john 3:16 question for mormons]

There is no doctrine as to how many wives Heavenly Father has. We know of a Heavenly Mother and that is it. Anything beyond that is merely speculation.

And Mary was the mother of Christ's physical body. Jesus Christ was the only person ever born on this earth who could claim God as both the Father of his spirit, and the Father of his physical body. Mary was the mother of his physical form. There is no doctrine beyond that as to what Mary's roll was in Heavenly Father's plan.

[john 3:16 question for mormons]

She was the Earthly mother of our Saviour. That's it. There is no LDS doctrine explaining the "how" of the Conception of Christ. I have never heard someone within the LDS church say that they believe Mary had sex with God. That is something I've only read on anti-Mormon websites that have been filled with all sorts of other misinformation about the church.

[Hello from Washington!]

That's the thing, I'm not sure. I don't know if it was really the HG, or just what I thought I was supposed to be feeling because the people around me were feeling the same way, and it's what I was always told growing up was the way I should feel when I'm in the Temple or listening to General Conference or whatever.

[Hello from Washington!]

Thank you all for the warm welcome. :)

I think what I'm mainly struggling with is knowing whether what I feel at certains times is the Spirit, or some kind of conditioned response from my upbringing in the church. The warm, comforting feeling people describe as the Spirit is something that only comes to me when listening to beautiful music. When I go to the Temple I LOVE the first half because the music is so beautiful, and I feel my heart swelling with happiness, and then it leaves during the second half and I wonder what the heck I'm doing.

[Lessons from C. S. Lewis]

There are a lot of things in the Chronicles of Narnia that are paralelled in or from the gospels. The "Not a Tame Lion" point is one of them. Some are more obvious than others.

You expressed your understanding of it far better than I could. Thanks for putting it into words.

Please share what other paralles you've noticed! This is only the second one from the Narnia books that I've picked up on (I'm a little dense ). This, and the obvious sacrifice of Aslan are the only "Christian" themes I've picked up on. I don't know how The Horse and His Boy, or Prince Caspian or any of that ties into Christianity.

[Lessons from C. S. Lewis]

I haven't read much of C. S. Lewis work, but what I have read I've loved (Mere Christianity, and the Narnia books). Just today I finally "got" one of the points he was trying to make in his Narnia books. I'd never understood why the Narnians often said of Aslan "He is not a tame lion," For all of my life I've percieved Christ as being a bit of a bleeding heart. Always nice, always peaceful, the kind of person who would give anyone a hug. Of course the clearing of the Temple went against that view, and I could never get the two "Christs" in my mind (the bleeding-heart and the Temple-clearer) to meld. Today while reading Jesus the Christ I finally got it. He's not a tame lion. He's not going to conform to the expectations of men. He has perfect discernment, we do not. He has perfect judgement, we do not. He knows exactly who the pure in heart are, and who the hypocrites are. He knows when violence or a harsh word is necessary, and when it's best to remain silent. Mankind can never, and will never, rein Him in to fit their "idea" of a perfect God, because fallen man has no inkling of what makes a perfect God. In our Fallen state we couldn't grasp it. When we return to Him we will fully see His wisdom, but for now we can only slightly comprehend, and rely on the Spirit to fill in our gaps of understanding.

[Hello from Washington!]

State! Not DC.

Hello! I thought I'd out myself as a fairly new lurker to this forum (been here for a couple of weeks, just registered a couple of days ago). My name is Jenamarie (duh), please do not shorten it to Jena. I'm a 26 year old SAHM to two wonderful toddlers, Raia (3.5) and Errol (my 4th of July baby! turns 2 this year). DH is George, who also registered at this site, but as far as I know hasn't posted yet, but may post in the future.

I'm currently wavering in my Testimony. Some days I feel like I've got a firm grip on it, and other days I wonder how in the world the church could possibly be true. It's been an emotional roller coaster for the past few months. I'm reading the BoM and Jesus the Christ (I don't suggest reading them simultaneously!), and also have Preach my Gospel that I study on occasion, I visit the Temple when the opportuniyt arrises, and I downloaded General Conference onto my MP3 player to listen to at the gym. I'd say I'm doing just about everything "right" in searching for a Testimony, and yet I fear getting down on my knees to really pray about it. I've prayed for help in finding an answer, but have yet to pray FOR an answer. Mainly my fear revolves around my family. What happens if I don't feel the Spirit Testifying to my heart that it's true? What would happen if I were to leave the church? My dear hubby has been so patient with me through all of this, but has made it clear that he would not want our children raised in another faith. If I couldn't gain a Testimony of the church could I be okay with my children being raised in a "false" faith? Would I be okay with going to other churches completely alone? Would my husband be hurt losing his "eternal" companion? Not to mention my ancestors have been members of the Church since Nauvoo. Crossed the plains and all of that. Could I abandon the faith they gave up so much to build up? It's a heavy weight.

I'm glad I found this site, because I love that there are non-LDS people here to give other viewpoints of doctrine and scripture. I've been drawn to learning more about other Christian faiths, to see if any of them have the ring of truth for me. The one thing I know for sure is that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. My Testimony of that is solid as a rock, so finding the knowledge He wants me to have of Him is my central goal of this whole quest for a Testimony.

Wow, that was longer than I meant it to me. If you've made it this far congratulations! I hope to get to know more of you as time goes on. :)