lostnfound

p.s. skalenfehl.that would be a great thread as well..what is in the bom that is not in the bible?

hmm..the bible tells us a whole lot more then that skalenfehl..including where his authority are found and where his church is. but i know you know that.

what is my main desire for what? in general..to love the lord jesus with all my heart, soul and mind and spirit..

ohh wait i just reread your post again jena. i think we might be talking about two different things. I started out just wanting an answer on how we know bom is true or bible is true. I think you went further and wanted to go into how we know jesus is Lord. I was trying to stay on topic of just the facts of the bible. Jesus existed. not whether or not you call him a good man or lord or not..just did the facts of the bible happen or not? Did the events in bom happen or not? Lds says we should pray to see that the events actually happened. With the bible there is not need for this. Do you understand what i am saying or am I being confusing.

hmm I think you might misunderstand me. I don't believe the bible is the knowledge of men. He wanted proof outside of bible so i gave it to him. but all you have to do is look at the validity of the bible using the bible by itself. 300 prophesies are there pertaining to jesus alone and each one was fulfilled perfectly! You should never seek the knowledge of men to proof to the bible. The bible is the inspired word of God. However prophecy evidence, historical evidence..etc..is there in objectivity to put your faith in its teachings. There is no reason to pray to see if it's true or not. Should you pray to seek God's face ..yes..should you pray that God reveals to you truth in his word ..yes..but to trust our feelings on the things goes against what the bible tells us. We can't trust our heart. it is wicked. Let me ask it another way..Why do you guys believe the bible is true if you don't pray about the bible and only the Bom??

i will give you quotes later today..but you can just google any of those guys..and learn about what they said...joshepus especially very famous..and look at his work jewish antiuity...they acknowledge there was indeed a Jesus. If you are looking for evidence of things outside of bible to know whether jesus existed..you can find it there is plenty out there of people talking about him good and bad..important thing is they know he existed. You could do the same thing with Joseph Smith's life? you could look at history to know he existed and trace his family tree etc...just curious are you skeptical as to whether or not jesus existed?

what do you mean gain a spirit? Did a spirit show up? or do you mean a good feeling?

The driving force of our faith starts with God's word..the bible. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God. This would make a great another thread..where does truth come from?

your right..and that goes for most reglions of the world. but back to my orginal question..as I am not even going down the path of wether people accept the gospel message or not..but it was suggested by some that we would pray over the bom to see if it's content are true. So, that is what i was exploring for now.

i agree tomk.there is a place to come to christ in a broken and contrite spirit .except..archeology does in fact help the validity of the bible..so i would also think that if the two books have the same author..then there would be more then an subjective feeling to go by for Bom? Which is what promted by first question.how to know any book is true or not? Even those that believe in the islam bible..believe with all their heart and soul its true. I believe they have earnestly sought out its contents and even have prayed over it. For me if I want to believe the Bom is true or not..I would tell any christian well read it..pray before reading asking God to reveal to you truth and line the thing up with the bible...but i would start with the bible as all truth and anthing else that claims to be another testamont must be lined up with God's word. I would never tell someone however to pray over bible to see if its' true or not. How then could I respond when they said they prayed over it and they felt it was false?

sources outside of bible..lets name a few..but there are many Thallus Pliny the younger Tacitus Marc Bar-serapion phlegon lucean of samosata josephes The toedot yeshu many more..from a historical record of those that believe the bible is true or not..Jesus existed.

Great question lehi... The bible has 66 books written over 2,000 years apart in 3 different languages...over 300 prophecies all pertaining to the events of Jesus...The most amazing historical accurate book on the planet and it does lead you to a Faith beyond measure of who Jesus was and is and God's work in sustaining His Word! The bible tells us "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"...so knowing that God's word is true and can be trusted is a big deal! As far as his divinity goes..hmm well evidence for the ressurection, evidence for Noah's flood, evidence for the creation of mankind, evidence in miracles then and today, evidence in creation alone accounts to his divinity... yes even in that there is objective evidence. Who is the author for history and science??? God is..and both can be found all throughout the bible. These are not two seperate ideas that are secular in thought. If history was not important. Then God never needed to write it down. Historical evidence is a big deal..and to the unbelieving world it is a witness to who Jesus Christ is.

"For since the creation of the world, his invisiable attritubutes have been clearly seen through what has been made so they are without excuse." Romans.. Would you consider this worldy evidence.to look at creation??

Feelings are really powerful. A pretty subjective thing indeed. As a non lds..i find the idea of praying over the bom very interesting. Some have suggested if you just seek with all your heart you will know it's true. However, I know for a fact this is not true. but for argument sake I will go with this idea for a min...as a christian. if a non christian and I mean like a buddist or athesist or someone like that wants to know if the bible is true. I have never suggested that they pray over the book of the bible. They don't need to..not only that..but the heart is desperately wicked and they do not have the holy spirit for that kind of discernement..so what are they to do?? They can look at it from a historical angle, prophecy angle and even scientific angle to uncover who Jesus was to see if he was Lord or not. In other words there is objective evidence that you can place your faith upon. So, I am curious as to why with the bom we don't say..well..look at the historical evidence for it...look at the prophecies coming true in it..something other then a feeling? I hope you guys know I am just trying to understand better with my questioning. I know these are questions that other christians have asked themselves as well at one time or another. :) p.s. Just let me preface one more thing. I do completelly believe you can seek God with al your heart mind and soul and he promises we will find him.. i do believe in the power of prayer and that God speaks to us today through his holy spirit. But anything I think is coming from God I will go back to the scriptures to make sure that it is coincides with God's word. :) Just wanted you to know that there is a place for honest seekers of Him through the amazing power of prayer.

p.c..interesting...thought on the word cult..i always thought cult would define a church as one that controls its people by emotional manipulation or physical..tells it's members what they can and can not read or listen to. Basically governing over a body of people trying to be their holy spirit.or taking the place of the holy spirits job? Am i wrong pc? or is their another definition of the word cult that fits better? :)

ok so your saying if you prayed over bom you would know bible is true? But it does not always work the other way around for some. What about the other books..pearl of great price and d/c is their a need to pray over those?

ok that makes sense dallas..here is my other thought then..reach out to them in love. sit down calmly with them,. and ask them what exactly is your fears or concerns with my faith? Listen to them. honestly listen to them..then it's your turn to share..remember seek first to understand before you seek to be understood.

how did you know it was true kosher? also you said it baffles you that others do not think it is true.which brings me to another question..what would most lds say to people that have prayed over it and the answer was it's false. The holy spirit prompts them to stay away??? What then?

Dallas, curious..who is doing this to you? Are they proffessing christians? Are they cruel? What are the specifics. Whoever it is if they aren't reaching out to you in love if they are christians I would be ashamed..and sad. You could always ask them what their motive is ..but remember a soft answer always turns away wrath."

T..good answer...however..can i challenge you with a thought. Does God speak to us in this way? Does he need anti lds sentements in his life to show him falseness in a church for example? The only reason i challenge you on this. is because someone may come along and say if you recieve anti christian sentiment does that mean you should not be a christian..rather let me encourage the original op to just line his church teachings up with the bible. Simple. ..simple..truth...he has already given us his word..everything else seems so subjective to me..I would rather go for objective truth. Anyways, I know your heart on this...and i know what your saying..just a thought that jumped out at me. :)

i still want others to answer this question..but..for those that did answer..did you guys pray over the bible as well to see if it was true? or what did you do to make sure the bible was true? Also the other books..pearl of great price and D/C?

I have a question for all of you that prayed to see if the book of mormon is true or not If you recieved an answer how did the answer come? Was it an audiable voice? A knowing? Someone confirmed your feelings?

jesus

I agree with jenamaries first assessment..That as sin continued so did disease etc..on people as well as the land. Remember adam and Eve were perfect. That is why they were able to mary cousins etc without deformities. Today that would not be the case.

cousin