Islander
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Posts posted by Islander
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I am sorry but I could not help laughing at the idea that other religions suck. Please - do not try to take offense with my bad taste in humor.
LOL...really hard. That was just priceless.
I often times use an analogy with educational levels. k thru 12 is good. It is a critical and necessary baseline but is not the end. Nobody can argue that the more education the better prepared a person would be, greater income, possibilities and choices. also more leisure time for the family. Also better prepared to deal with the challenges of every kind that surely will come our way thru life. The kingdom of God is the same.
I ask people: Are you hungry for more knowledge and insight into the mysteries of God? Do you know and understand the existential truths about the cosmos, God relationship with us and our future potential as His offsprings? Do you feel you have the power and ability to deal with Satan and beat him at his own game, namely overcoming his temptations, which he has perfected over an eternity to try and defeat us? Do you feel you have the power and authority to act in the name of God, to invoke His name and change by faith thru His grace nature itself?
In humility but with certainty, I can declare that we know these things and we teach these things to the whole world if they are humble and willing. It would be difficult for me to say anything else.
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A lot of the dissenting opinions are part of the traditions inherited from the Nicaean council and not necessarily from the description on the NT.
For the uninitiated and without any help from the theologians, the NT offers multiple opportunities to believe that the Father and the Son are two distinct and different personages. The scriptures are sufficiently transparent to discern that Jesus proclaims himself the Son of God, the Messiah, the Lamb of God and working and preaching/teaching the kingdom on behalf of his Father. Further along, Paul and others describe the Lamb sitting at the right hand of God.
They felt FORCED to come up with a theological explanation for the trinity because of the monotheistic nature of the OT and the absolute mandate of YHW for Israel not to worship any other gods. Now, in the same OT, YHW proclaims that he is the Savior, the Redeemer, the Creator. The same attributes and claims that were made by Jesus later in the NT. So, they HAD to come up with a theological rather than natural explanation and the claim of a mystery. But that is not how the scriptures read. I suggest that the Spirit would lead most (without exposure to prejudicial theological theories) to believe that the trinity is made out of 3 distinct personages rather than 1 mysterious God that requires a PhD in divinity to explain itself.
I grew up in an island in the middle of nowhere without teachers of religion of any kind. Over my dinner table and without any help and reading an old tattered bible, my grandmother said "YHW is Jesus and, Jesus is the Son of God-the-Father-of-ALL spirits. And the Holy Ghost speaks the truth to our hearts when man won't."
I think the academic debate was put to rest with the testimony of Joseph. but friends, you are free to believe as you wish.
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People often neglect to understand that although Israel has about 15,000 square miles of surface, we are still trying to figure out where such and such cities were location. Archaeologists and historian continue to fight about it with no end in sight even with a record that spans 10,000 years. Central and South America have 12 million square miles. There is no coherent recorded history of the region but fragments from the inhabitants at the time of the conquest just over 500 years ago.
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There is much beauty and goodness in Islam. As a commitment of faith and a personal guideline for conduct, it has many good fruits for those who choose to hold this faith.
As a structure for civil law and justice in the United States or globally it [it=?] would be inappropriate and for every good thing it might produce, in balance there would be too many violations of liberty as a result.
Before we go much further in this discussion -- I don't know about anyone else, but I could use at least a few bullet points about what consitutes Shari'a Law -- bullet points coming from those who adhere to it, not from someone looking on the outside in. Is there anyone with even that amount of knowledge? Not me. I'm just guessing what I think it would entail and basing my conclusion on my general assumptions.
MaidservantX:
I hate to burst your bubble, but unfortunately you suffer from the often times well intended but blind humanistic idealism and utopic view of society that permeates the Western world.
I am not going to make a dissertation about Islam here. I just want to point to the fact that Islamic societies are some of the most repressive, most violent, most abusive, most backwards, less developed and economic deprived societies in the world. Beyond fossil fuels, nothing is being made in teh Middle East. As much money as the monarchies make in the oil market, ALL of it is invested outside in the west. Most of the Arab Emirates are virtually welfare states. At the core of this is Islam and the interpretation and application of the Qur'an, including their legal system.
I am sure that there are good, pacific and loving people in Islamic societies. but they are the very small minority and they do not yield the political power to affect change in the societies they live in. I submit that the evidence that Sharia law and more specif Islam has not delivered as a religion and socio-political system is the current state of affair of the Middle East after 1300 years.
To reject our systems of laws to accommodate the wishful thinking of utopic (inclusive and accommodating) societies is a very dangerous exercise with consequences you can not possible imagine.
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Apparently it won't be long until they have it in the UK:
Sharia law SHOULD be used in Britain, says UK's top judge | Mail Online
I have heard for calls in Canada to have separate laws for Muslim and non-Muslim people. Personally, I think this is ridiculous. If someone wants to live under Islamic law there are many Muslim nations on earth they can go to. Of course, if Muslims keep growing, and Christians continue not having enough kids, then maybe someday the Muslims will be the majority -- and in that event I guess then they can go ahead and impose Sharia law on everyone.
This is where reason together with Elvis has left the building. Why would you institute a failed socio-political system in your own country? Before the 7th century the Arabia peninsula was a collection of chieftains and tribal groups. There was NO law. Muhammad gave the Muslim people Sharia law which is Islamic law. You will not be happy with it or the interpretation thereof.
Not only that, I think it's simply honoring stupidity to surrender sovereignty to a foreign religion and form of government. By the way, under Sharia the top UK judge would be demoted and fired. In order to be qualified a sharia judge has to be able to read the Koran and the kitab kuning, or the classical canon books of Islamic law. Beyond the fact that MANY aspects of Muslim law allow for things considered crimes under the law in the West.
I think this is an example of PC run a mock.
PS: To surrender one's contitution and form of government to a foreign interest was considered treason not too long ago. What happened?
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LOL....Oh, that episode was priceless. Yes, I get stares that if they could kill I would be cadaver by now when I talk about PC and my low tolerance for it.
I have learned to assess ALL issues and consider them carefully before I speak. I organize my thoughts and I state the facts as demonstrated by the evidence. Opinions I usually keep to my self. But if you haven't seen me or know any thing about me and my family, you may not like very much what I have to say. I am obviously not politically correct and I find the attempt of some to force such on me quite upsetting.
Oh, and guess what? Once they see me in person they say things like "you of ALL people should not be saying stuff like that"....that is when I break out my loud and irreverent island-style laughter.
Bunch of moronic, sidewalk-cafe intellectuals. They live in a sanitized glass jar and they think they understand the universe. I laugh at them lot. My wife is beginning to suspect I may be using "something." I tell her if I don't I would have lost a my mind long time ago. She is not at all convinced.
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My apologies if anyone took offense. However, I do maintain that it was a "copy and paste job." The inquiry was verbatim from other sites. Maybe his intent was not to argue and antagonize and if I jumped to that conclusion prematurely I apologize.
I just have very little time to argue with those that make of it a sport. Look forward to contribute and share in the right spirit. Inquiry is of God and I will honor all that truly seek to know the truth with full intent.
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Never fear..... * is near and hope and change is on the way!
:mad: Nanny state is about to expand and I hope we don't change so much that we can't find our way back.The missionaries really struggle and the members struggle to help them. They are competing with the media circus(CBN and Trinity ) and Mega churches promising riches and blessings if you send money. They look Spirit filled........it is a fallen sphere indeed.
I totally agree with you. Some time ago I had a few words with a pastor and thought, while he was chatting non-stop about how God wanted me to be rich, that a lightening strike right then and there would have been well deserved. I went home and repented of my thoughts. I kept looking and 2 years later I found the church.
I find it disgusting and offensive for someone to preach the gospel as a mean of achieving material prosperity. The apostles walked away from prosperity to endure a life of hardship and privation for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, paying with their lives for the privilege of discipleship.
I should drop it. I can feel my blood pressure beginning to inch up
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You have to take a look at the definition of Civil Disobedience and how it worked in this country. Especially for the Church.
Here is an example. You are told that our Government wants to round up all non Christians and put them into a concentration camp. Your neighbors are non Christians and have been friends for years. You know that they are being persecuted unjustly. They are in your home. A knock on the door. It is Govt troops asking you if there are any non Christians in your home. What do you tell them?
God gave the law of polygamy.
God expects the law to be obeyed.
You are rewarded in his kingdom for obedience to those laws he gives. Many have died and been imprisoned in the past for obeying Gods laws.
You have the right to remain in silence. You are not compelled to answer that question without due process. Besides, they (next door) may have converted an hour before after realizing that they had been wrong for a long time. And you are in no position to accuse your neighbors without being sure you are not baring false witness. I would honestly answer "I do not know." You are still within the bounds of the law.
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In the West we have grown fat and apathetic about just everything. We keep seeking and coming out with more bizarre, morbid and brazen games and entertainment. We do not fear anything, we feel not dependent on anything (certainly not God) and we are apparently ale to carry out our sorry lives with no help from deity, or so we thing.
We are not aware of all the enemies we have. The billions that hate us with a passion that conumes their souls. The ones that are willing to die themselves as long as they can kill a few of us in the process. The wants that hate everything we are and all we stand for. Those that pray every day that the hand of (their) god would sweep us fromt eh faith of the earth.
Wealth and prosperity will be our downfall. This land will be overrun as promised in the scriptures because our unbelief and stiffneckedness (I just made that up) of our people. A very sad tale.
That is why the church will grow outside of the US. The simple the humble, the meek of the earth have a soft and willing heart and the blessings will go to them. They may remember the long captivity of their fathers under communism and savage regimes. As long as they retain that memory they will prosper and flourish the work of the Lord.
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He asked an honest question, got honest answers and is considering them, isn't that one of the main goals of having a forum like this?
That was not an honest question. That was a well rehearsed, extensively debated and highly contentious argument. I have been looking at these forums long enough to spot a "copy and paste job" from somebody whose ONLY intention is mto bait people into a debate.
When I have a question I research the issue on my own. I read the available sources and information and I make up my mind about it without going to a place where ALL would have to go to the SAME sources I just visited in order to engage. He is citing dozens of sources in the post. Whether he actually read and research them all is a different story.
In summary; plural marriage is a subject and doctrine that IS NO LONGER taught in the church. Marriage and divorce and marriage is not polygamy. Otherwise 50% of the US population has to be considered polygamist. The subject has no baring in our current lives, is not relevant to living the Gospel and the covenants of the kingdom as they have been revealed for us now in these last days.
We should just move on to a more constructive and spiritually edifying subject.
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hardly, with each breath I take a strong and well formulated opinion is given to the world. It just seemed a little scripted is all.
:):):):)
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Here is one from me.
If there was progression available to go between kingdoms.. and the Lord told us there was.. Don't you think that most people would probably do everything they wanted to do here on this earth.. and repent later? After all.. if you have all eternity to do it in..
Such is the nature of man.
Men will be judged for what they know at the time of their mortal fall or time of death. They will be accountable for how much light they received in this life and the opportunities they had. But it is clear from the scriptures this is the time to repent and work on attaining truth, knowledge and the covenants of the kingdom as they have been revealed:
Alma 42: 4, 10, 13
1 Ne. 10: 21
1 Ne. 15: 32
2 Ne. 9: 27
Hel. 13: 38
Just like on the earth and inspite of much effort and sacrifice, some of our brothers and sisters seem unable to progress, such will be in the celestial kingdom.
D&C 130: 18-19
18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.
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Who are you quoting or is it just plagiarize
hour?I can see you are surprised at the sight of a strong and well formulated opinion. :)
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Why is it that a bold affirmation of the truth is offensive? Why is it that I must temper my speech in regards to the things that I know to be absolutely true?
I claim the right to be politically incorrect on account of declaring that I know what I know and stating without ambiguity or fear that is it an absolute fact. That some may not agree, it is their prerogative and I acknowledge that. Should they take offense on me direct and precise about what I know and believe is also their choice. They are free to do and believe as they please. I am entitled to my opinion just like anyone else in regards to what I see and I make no apology for that.
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Let me start out by saying I am very close to leaving the church. Though I have a few questions before, which is why I came here. To start with, one of my issues with church doctrine is the subject of the Cross. Personally, I wear a Cross, but according to the church website, mormons are not supposed to wear the symbol of the cross because, “the Savior lives, [so] we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith.” My opinion on the subject, is that the symbol of Christ's' death, the Cross, is the symbol of Christianity because without his death there would be no religion.
So my question is, why? I do not understand why the fact that Christ lives means that we should not wear a Cross. I ask for any further explanation and/or opinions on the subject.
I am sory to hear that you have some issues that have not been resolved that is causing your testimony to faulter. I sicerely wish you could find the faith, strength and courage to read, ponder and inquire of the Lord as to understand the questions in your heart.
I think in our country we hold wikipedia too high up for our own good and spend very little time truly studying. We are commanded to study and serch as to be prepared to go forth and do the Lord's work.
The word "cross" does not appear in the original greek of the NT. During the first two centuries of Christianity, the cross may have been rare in Christian lore, as it depicts a painful and gruesome method of public execution. The Ichthys, or fish symbol, was used by early Christians. The Chi-Rho monogram, which was adopted by Constantine in the 4th century as his banner, was another Early Christian symbol. In fact the cross appears since the early bronze age in several pagan symbols of the equinox, the sun and the east-west paradigm. The cross takes relevance away from the roman empire where people were not familiar with this method of execution and Christians begin to carve and represent to converts in texts, walls, fabric and other media the story of the crucifixion of Christ.
There you have it. For the rest, those who would like to follow the counsel of the prophets of this dispensation in regards to the issue at hand will do so. Those who don't I guess they can do as they please.
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Oh, no question that some of that stuff is real. Where I come from folks are into that stuff big time. My grandmother did not know much about it but she felt they were "disobedient spirits" entrenched in remaining on the earth trying to deal with humans when "their time was already up and their ticket called". In her eyes that was rebellion against The Father and we should stay away from that as far as we can. If you give Satan audience you give him power over you.
In the OT God commanded Israel to put away from the camp those witches and if they insisted on their craft to put them to death. I think God is serious about the issue. I do not pay any atention to those programs. I prefer The History Channel.
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It's funny that no matter what topic I start, the only thing it comes back to is - "Pray, Have faith, etc..."
You don't think I do that? I haven't made up my mind yet, like you suggest. I am constantly searching for answers, which is why I am here. But it seems no one can fess up to the truth, or at least recognize that what I say has some value.
You know good and well that the fact that women can't have the Priesthood makes NO sense.
You also know that not allowing both men and women to be able to be sealed to more than one person makes no sense.
Men and women are equal but different, and everything a man is offered by the hand of God or the prophet or whatever, should also be offered to a woman. And vice versa. Not biological traits. That's completely different.
Once again....no one can answer me. I just got my new temple reccommend yesterday, and asked the Bishop all these things. He seemed to understand me.
Ultimatley, the only answer is "We don't know."
Sister, you received your recommend recently but you demonstrate a limited understanding of the Gospel, the revelation of this dispensation and the doctrine of the kingdom. It will take some time for you to be able to understand and comprehend many important things. It will be thru obedience, faith, study and prayer that you will get there.
If you went to the temple recently I think you did not hear, understood or remember much of what was said there. Go back and try to concentrate. Also, did you notice that the sisters DO absolutely the same and officiate as the brethren do on their side of the endowment session?
I hope you would pause and reflect on what has been posted here. Perhaps words alone can not convey the love and concern we feel for you. The endowment is a beautiful thing and carries great promises but also great responsibilities. Words also fail to convey the urgency and our heartfelt desire for you to grasp that it is much you risk should you fail to understand and live up to you temple covenant.
I hope you would consider these things and continue to study, ponder and pray that the Spirit may reveal to you what you need to give your heart certainty and rest.
My wife and I send our love to you and your family.
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This is where religion and science conflict.
Blacks have black skin because God made them so. Women have breasts. Men have penises. Mexicans have dark skin. Chinese have light. Blonde, brunette, male female....etc....those are all biological. You know that.
Holding the Priesthood doesn't happen because you have the penis. It happens because man makes it so. God didn't love black people any less before they could hold the Priesthood. It was MAN that didn't love black people. Same thing with women. Women can't hold the Prieshood because of man. Not God. You can say it's the Prophet who tells us this is how it should be, but that's also what the prophet said before black people were allowed the Priesthood.
You should check your sources. I am a convert to the church, I happen to be black and I have researched the issue in significant detail. Vaghn is right. The priesthood was withheld to men of African descent for very specific reasons. You should study the issue if you are interested.
In the other hand, the issue before us is quite simple; --either Joseph saw the God of the universe and His Son or not. Did he received revelation or not as a prophet? Was the priesthood restored thru him or not? Until and unless you find answers to these questions you are putting forth just your opinion. When it comes to the things of God our opinion is not worth much and we run the risk of finding ourself on the wrong side of the truth. I think you must consider these issues prayerfully and sincerely. I suggest you seek an interview with your bishop and raise all the questions you have and avoid listening to the echo inside your head. We usually have a very difficult time discerning what is fact and what is opinion when we do not understand the doctrine of the kingdom. Confusion and doubt often constitute a sure way to open the door to the enemy.
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What this forum has made me recognize is that it appears we are not providing adequate information in the young women's programs for young women to recognize what going to the temple is all about. In addition, it sounds like we are neglecting to help them build an identity centered on the fact that they are daughters of God. They recite a Young Women's theme weekly but do they believe it? Are we missing the mark? I know I felt like these young women did, I went to the temple out of obedience and I really didn't understand all the covenants and promises. It has come with time. Had I been more prepared, I think I would have felt so much more confident and prepared! I also really didn't understand the garments and it took a few times talking to other sisters and going through the initiatory part of the temple to really start to "get it".
Lee Anne, I hope I did not offend you or make you feel bad. Life is a learning experience. Making mistakes is part of the journey, not the end of it. We have each other to learn from and the Lord expected us to struggle with certain things. It sounds like you are open to learning and trying new ways and that will be a huge benefit to you. Wishing you all the best!
I agree with BussyMom. With no intent to hurt or criticize, I would also like to point out that we must teach our young girls how to dress since a very early age. I have 4 girls (do not tease me about the drama in my house...hehehehe) and since they were born they have always dressed the way they will dress when they marry at the temple. My oldest is 11 and she understand perfectly why we do this. My wife is a young 32 and quite hot I might add, but she has dressed modernly but modestly since becoming a member of the church. My girls all know what garments look like and they know that although others may dress as they wish, that is not the way WE dress. On the appointed day, I hope that they will go to the temple to receive their covenants and it is going to be second nature to slip into the garment of the priesthood. I have seen some of my friends' daughters marry and make this transition without a glitch.
I suggested talking to the sisters at the temple. It may be a good place to start also. I would go for the "younger" ones since it may be easier to empathize and relate to on these issues.:)
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I actually talked to my bishop about this last night, and things ended up making sense. He told me that YES a woman can be sealed to more than one man - if the first one dies.
This still doesn't make up for the fact that men can be sealed to thirty wives at once.
I understand all the reasoning behind it....but get this....
Last night as soon as I got home, I told me husband about it. He was so infuriated that the Bishop told me that women can have more than one husband that he flipped out and called his dad to see if it was true. After some talking to, his dad convinced him....
Later, jokingly (and I might get kicked out for this....) my husband said something to the effect of...
"When I'm [lewd term for sex] 18 other queens..." Talking about the celestial kingdom....
We aren't ready to get sealed, the wedding is off.
That is the silliest thing I've ever heard!!! I am trying so hard not to laugh.
Not only that, why are we spending so much time discussing a principle that is not currently taught in the church, it has no baring in our current lives and that we do not fully comprehend? There is no such thing as celestial sex!!! That is just silly.
Can we just move on to a more spiritually uplifting, less contentious and more productive topic, now?
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I suppose you are addressing me in your post. Yes, I would like a women only category. A place were women can connect with other women. A place where women can talk openly to each other with out men peeking in. We need a place for women only. There are are topics that only women should share with other women. Like my pantyhose make me itch when the temperature goes up.
Need I say more!
Leeann
I understand your desire for privacy although I think there is nothing wrong with asking one of the girls in the forum a question, either privately or thru a posting. There is no mystery about tight, itchy pantyhoses. I could tell you what my wife opted for doing but I will let on the girls here answer that. You can send them a private message, you know.
At the end, whatever challenge you think you are facing in regards to your clothing after receiving your endowment is not new. Some sisters have been asking the same question since 1850.
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they are missionaries, I guess they live in the city close by, maybe I will wait until they come over and then ask if they are hungry.
No worries. Missionaries are ALWAYS hungry. They walk or bike 8 hours a day so you can imagine. But have not worries at all in regards to food. Just have them some cold Sprite or lemonade ready and they will appreciate it.
Good luck in your meeting tonight and keep us posted.
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Do any other women find this VERY VERY annoying/wrong?
That's polygamy in Heaven is DOCTRINAL. I have prayed and searched and it's still so frustrating to me. I can't accept that polygamy is part of Heaven. If it is, I don't believe that women can't have more than one husband in the eternities. It makes no sense whatsoever and REALLY REALLY makes my testimony falter. I don't understand how anyone can condone this!
It is OK sister. You do not have to worry about that issue right now and if you are married your husband has only one wife. If we make it to the celestial kingdom we'll all receive further instructions. But once we are there whatever it is that we have to do will be a bliss compared to what we had to endure to actually get there.
For now just love the ONE husband your father has appointed to you and bask in his love for you. :)
i am trying to learn
in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints
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NY - Did you get to meet with the missionaries?