seamusz
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Posts posted by seamusz
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Originally posted by Please+Nov 18 2005, 03:50 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-BenRaines@Nov 18 2005, 03:48 PM
This is silly but!!!!
God gave man agency. That in and of itself is free. Agency to choose or agency to act. That is freedom to choose or freedom to act or not to choose or not to act.
What is compelled agency? Is there such a thing? Can we be compelled to be free to choose. I don't think so. Agency is freedom.
Satan's plan in pre-existence did not have agency. God's plan did.
You need to read a little more in the scriptures... LOL and then do some pondering... you have... like seamus stated... got the general idea... but not the deeper more technical one... which leads to a lot more interesting knowledge and understanding...
Actually I think that Ben is probably right. I think that it is more important to teach our childeren that every choice has its concequences, than to explain how technically it can be thought of as free agency. I think that calling it plain agency is the deeper meaning.
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Originally posted by Outshined@Nov 18 2005, 04:02 PM
Yeah, when Mariah Carey did that remake of Def Leppard's Bringin' On The Heartbreak?
Completely evil.
evil pronounced ee-vil, as in the fru-its of the de-vil.
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Originally posted by Please+Nov 18 2005, 03:43 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-BenRaines@Nov 18 2005, 03:38 PM
Oh no and I saw Jon Lovitz as Mestopholiz or Lucifer on SNL. I had better go and see the Bishop.
Joseph Smith "I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves"
There is no such thing as free agency. It is agency, right to choose. Nothing free about it. Each of us has our agency to choose.
If you believe in a judgement then that is where we will be held accountable of how we used or abused that agency.
Actually there is such a thing as free agency. Free to have agency... Free in that truth/intelligence/light = free and without this freeingness, you would not be able to use agency.
This is a question of definition, I think that from a general perspective, Ben is right. But technally Please is right, but really you are using different definitions of "free".
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Ive not heard much of the second album, would you consider it better than the first?
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Yes, great song, and a great band... by the way, you an Audioslave fan? I am a fan myself... I liked Rage, I like SG, and thought that Chris Cornell and the guys from rage have a good sound, although they lack some of the depth of either of the band...
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Hey, Outshined, this thread made me think of a question Ive been meaning to ask you, I was wondering if your name is from the Soundgarden song... just curious. Anyway, my views are pretty much along yours.
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Originally posted by Please@Nov 16 2005, 03:10 PM
My community minded comment was taken to be supporting small businesses... it was never ever ever intended to say such...
My comment was stating that what was best for the community... (LOW COSTING PRODUCTS AND ONE STOP SHOPPING CONVIENCE ) was what was best for the community... saves on gas... car wrecks... frustrations...traffic....time...
Less traffic coursing through our neighborhoods, less money out of our pockets... less time consumed on traveling from small business to small business... all are benefits to the community....
Its ok Please, you don't have to justify yourself to me. It's not like I can change your mind anyway...
"A man (or woman) convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"
lisajo, I think that it isn't a catch 22. If we consider the economic damage that huge competitive monopolies like walmart can do to our communities and our country, I think that the only way to win is to not shop at walmart. Now, I know that there are people smarter than me who can justify shopping at walmart, but all I know is that I don't think that it is good, and my gut tells me this. I feel like I'm doing the right thing by not shopping there and encouraging others to do the same.
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Originally posted by Please+Nov 15 2005, 11:26 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Please
@Oct 5 2005, 01:12 PMMost definitely life is not fair... but I believe we need to be community minded enough to make some sacrifices... for the betterment of all...
So I guess so much for this comment, eh Please?
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It is suprising to me how many of you aren't willing to look at both sides of this issue. I posted this story on walmat a while back, it both praises walmart and also condemns walmart. I highly recommend you read it, or at least some of it.
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I've probably said all that I need to on this topic, but I will ask all of you who aren't convinced of the unethical practices and exploitation of walmart to study up on it. Also, the documentary, Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price, is out, so see if you can. You might be surprised at some of the info in it.
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Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 14 2005, 06:31 PM
P.S. Walmart is a social blessing, IMHO. It offers jobs to unskilled laborers, who are often taking their first job. It also offers low-priced products to people who greatly need to get a lot with a little. Ultimately, those who are so harsh in their criticism of Walmart, are often guilty of elitism. They would never shop there because...hey, they have enough money, so they don't have to.
Sorry, I can't resist...
I think that you would be surprised to find that although WM does offer jobs to unskilled laborers, this is not the cas for a majority of employees. Also, the low-priced products are priced low at the cost of the companies who sell them to wallyworld, and the underpaid/underbenifited employees. And although elitism may be a factor from some, I would contend that it is by far the minority of people. Elitists are fair-weather shoppers. I would say that the majority of people that I have talked to and seen who are vehemently against wm, are part of the middle class, who could definitely use the lower prices, but find that as a principal, they think that it is important to support those in the community around them. Not to say that people who shop at wm don't support their community on purpose, but that they aren't as informed as those who understand the danger of wm and, to a lesser degree but still a factor, other big box stores. I recently read a report put out by The NY Times comparing Walmart and Costco, that pointed out that although costco's prices are higher than walmarts, their profits are about half. Where do you think the difference is?
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Originally posted by Please@Nov 7 2005, 12:07 AM
I have known a few non-temple recommend holders who participated in blessing their babies...
What are we saying here... that you don't have the priesthood unless you have a recommend? A father's blessing isn't an ordinance... it is just a father's blessing and naming their child...
It is true that a father's blessing can be done without the priesthood, but the a baby blessing is an ordinance and is performed by the power of the MP, albeit not a saving ordinance.
Also, any MP holder should have a valid temple recommend, if they are worthy, although I agree that to expect all people present to have there recommend handy is not very realistic. How many of us can't remember our recommend when we are on our way to the temple.
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Yet another post that has been hijacked by bickering and negativity.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1811620,00.html
If Shakespeeare is his real name!
btw, is there any particular reason why this thread is in the "Gospel Forum"?
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I found this article on Wal-Mart. Some of it contradicts some of my claim, some of it supports some of my claims. All in all it is a very well written and balanced article. I suggest you read it.
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Originally posted by Snow@Oct 6 2005, 09:25 PM
Ya - I guess
You know Snow, if you look hard enough, you can find a mote in anyone's eye. But unfortunately by searching for the mote, you sometimes miss the beauty of that person's face.
Things Behind The Sun
by: Nick Drake
Please beware of them that stare
They'll only smile to see you while
Your time away
And once you've seen what they have been
To win the earth just won't seem worth
Your night or your day
Who'll hear what I say.
Look around you find the ground
Is not so far from where you are
But not too wise
For down below they never grow
They're always tired and charms are hired
From out of their eyes
Never surprise.
Take your time and you'll be fine
And say a prayer for people there
Who live on the floor
And if you see what's meant to be
Don't name the day or try to say
It happened before.
Don't be shy you learn to fly
And see the sun when day is done
If only you see
Just what you are beneath a star
That came to stay one rainy day
In autumn for free
Yes, be what you'll be.
Please beware of them that stare
They'll only smile to see you while
Your time away
And once you've seen what they have been
To win the earth just won't seem worth
Your night or your day
Who'll hear what I say.
Open up the broken cup
Let goodly sin and sunshine in
Yes that's today.
And open wide the hymns you hide
You find reknown while people frown
At things that you say
But say what you'll say
About the farmers and the fun
And the things behind the sun
And the people round your head
Who say everything's been said
And the movement in your brain
Sends you out into the rain.
Place To Be
by: Nick Drake
When I was younger, younger than before
I never saw the truth hanging from the door
And now I'm older see it face to face
And now I'm older gotta get up clean the place.
And I was green, greener than the hill
Where the flowers grew and the sun shone still
Now I'm darker than the deepest sea
Just hand me down, give me a place to be.
And I was strong, strong in the sun
I thought I'd see when day is done
Now I'm weaker than the palest blue
Oh, so weak in this need for you.
From The Morning
by: Nick Drake
A day once dawned, and it was beautiful
A day once dawned from the ground
Then the night she fell
And the air was beautiful
The night she fell all around.
So look see the days
The endless coloured ways
And go play the game that you learnt
From the morning.
And now we rise
And we are everywhere
And now we rise from the ground
And see she flies
And she is everywhere
See she flies all around
So look see the sights
The endless summer nights
And go play the game that you learnt
From the morning.
I surprises me how much liberty the moderators take with the content code.
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While sitting here, at work, I have an artist named Nick Drake Playing on my machine. He is one of the most musically pleasing artists I have ever listened too. His album Pink Moon is one of the greatest albums ever, imo. Beautiful and mellon collie, anyone would love this album.
Just thought I'd share.
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Originally posted by pushka@Oct 6 2005, 09:43 AM
Phew! Do you think this can be classed as The Happy Ending of this particular thread? LOL
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Originally posted by Please@Oct 5 2005, 01:12 PM
Most definitely life is not fair... but I believe we need to be community minded enough to make some sacrifices... for the betterment of all...
Thus we should try and frequent local stores and not Walmart... I knew you'd come around!
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Originally posted by Please+Oct 3 2005, 06:04 PM-->Originally posted by seamusz+Oct 3 2005, 05:55 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seamusz @ Oct 3 2005, 05:55 PM)<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 3 2005, 05:43 PM
I think this whole thread was nothing more than a personal rant... to think it has gotten to this point is not good.
<!--QuoteBegin-first post said
Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.
not a rant, just a little plug for a movie.
LOL
yeah right. ok, you are right... That is one short rant though....Please... have you ever not been right?
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Originally posted by Please+Oct 3 2005, 05:43 PM-->
I think this whole thread was nothing more than a personal rant... to think it has gotten to this point is not good.
<!--QuoteBegin-first post said
Just thought I'd make a plug for a new movie that shows the darker side of Wally World.
not a rant, just a little plug for a movie.
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Originally posted by Outshined@Oct 3 2005, 05:41 PM
Please stop putting words into my mouth.
Actually, you are the one who said when interviewed for a recommend, you need to consider whether you shop at Walmart when they ask if you are honest in all your dealings. You said:
That was pretty clear.Is it, or is it not a question in the Temple Recommend Interview "Are you honest with your dealings with your fellow man"(or something along those lines)
If you knowingly support a business that you know exploits workers, children, governments, and other businesses for personal gain, are you guiltless?
yes, that is what I said, I did not say "As opposed to implying that those who don't shop as you do or share your hatred for a single store do are not worthy to attend the Temple?". I stand by what I said. I hope that Walmart crumbles and falls OR changes their practices. When and if they change how they do business, I will then give them as much crap as I give others.
Personally I could not feel good about myself by shopping at Walmart. It is not my business to concerm myself about anyone elses Temple Recommend. I can see how that sounds really condescending, but that isn't how I mean it.
I am an employee of an ethical local company who does business with stores up and down Utah. To me there is a big difference.
Not to me; it's still supporting them and accepting their money. Anyway, what's important is how you feel about it.
If you don't want to shop at Wally World, then don't; but don't condemn those who do or presume to know their motives for helping so many who are in need. Selfish or not, I saw a lot of people being helped by the supplies Walmart sent to Mississippi.
Like I said earlier, I didn't mean to condemn anyone. I did want to make clear that we are not blameless when it comes to where we shop, and that it does matter.
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Originally posted by Outshined+Oct 3 2005, 05:25 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-seamusz@Oct 3 2005, 05:20 PM
lol, but not sure enough to post your age? I see...
I'm 39, veteran of two wars; and you?
My most sincere respect for you service to the country. Thank you.
26, and trying my best to do the right thing.
So your plan is to put down those that attually care about their community and are trying to make a difference? I though this was a LDS board.
As opposed to implying that those who don't shop as you do or share your hatred for a single store do are not worthy to attend the Temple?
Please stop putting words into my mouth.
I don't accept money from walmart, I am a vendor...
So your boss gets money from Walmart and in turn pays you for supplying them. Quite a difference.
I am an employee of an ethical local company who does business with stores up and down Utah. To me there is a big difference.
If it weren't for you posts laced with anger and bitterness I might be enjoying this conversation.
Anger? Bitterness? Not on this end. Perhaps you are simply reading too much into it; projecting, as it were...
I may be reading to much, but that is what it is coming across as.
If you aren't having fun, perhaps I should bow out so the attacks on Walmart and their customers can continue unopposed.
You don't need to bow out, but attacking me personally isn't really good form in a discussoin.
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Originally posted by Outshined+Oct 3 2005, 05:10 PM-->
How old are you btw?
From the way your posts read, older than you are...More experience in life will doubtless temper your views.
lol, but not sure enough to post your age? I see...
<!--QuoteBegin-Outshined@Oct 3 2005, 05:10 PM
You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts... You seem to be taking this all very personally.
Not at all; it's fun watching someone make such foolish claims about shopping. You've been the one making such bizarre statements. Perhaps you should read back through them.
So your plan is to put down those that attually care about their community and are trying to make a difference? I though this was a LDS board.
Why can't you stick to the issue?
Which is what, that shopping at Walmart is wrong? Moreso than accepting money from them and supporting them as a supplier? As I said, you're nothing if not entertaining...That's why I can't take you seriously. B)
I don't accept money from walmart, I am a vendor... If it weren't for you posts laced with anger and bitterness I might be enjoying this conversation.
Today's Music
in General Discussion
Posted
That'll date ya.
