unixknight

Eventually I want to get it to where it works on all browsers. At the moment I'm working on the Firefox part.

Man, I hope so. My ex called me this afternoon with a question, namely, how one reconciles the warning at the end of Revelation about adding or subtracting from the context of this book. She knew I'd have the answer (LDS Apologetics is a hobby of mine) but I'm confused as to why she asked... At this point she isn't looking for reasons to trust the Church. She's looking for ammo to use against it. Why she'd come to me with a question like that has me confused. Much as I'd love for it to be her seeking to return, I don't think that's it. I invited my daughter to dinner for Saturday night, just the two of us, and we're going to talk about this stuff.

I'm remarried. My new wife posts on this forum often.

Ever since my ex lost interest in the church she's been much more lenient on our 3 kids in terms of what they can get away with, morality-wise. One issue is that she doesn't may any attention to what they do with their computers, and each has a computer in their own room, unsupervised. I am a software developer and I've been working on a program that, once complete, will quietly run in the background of each computer and compile a report for me periodically and send me an E-mail. It will tell me every website the computer has visited, and eventually I might even add the functionality to search things like E-mail and chat logs for possible trouble. This is, I admit, not allowing them much privacy, but in this day and age, and the fact that they're otherwise unsupervised, I feel it's necessary. The reason I'm posting this is to let everybody know that if something like this interests you, and you'd like to have it for your kids' computers, let me know and I'll gladly share it with you, free of charge. It will only run on Windows, and you'd need the .NET framework installed but Windows XP and Vista come with that anyway. For those who like to tinker with software or who would just feel more comfortable, I'll also supply the source code as freeware. (It's written in C#) At this point it's not finished, but the component that scans all Internet Explorer files works, and the E-mail feature is near completion. MODS: I apologize, I meant to post this under Parenting. If someone would be so kind as to move it, I'll be very grateful.

I don't mean to gravedig an old thread, but there's something I wanted to bring up to ask about that directly relates to it. I received a call from my older son(16) this afternoon that disturbed me greatly. It seems my ex and her semi-live-in boyfriend have decided to go find a new church together. They decided that they'd go "church shopping" today as a family (!) and wanted to take my kids along. My older son refused to go. He's active in church, he goes to Seminary regularly, and he has no intention to go to any new church. He's a Mormon and loving it. My younger son(13) wasn't there since he was spending the night at a friend's house, but my older daughter(9) was forced to go. All 3 of my kids are baptized LDS, and all 3 of them like it, but my daughter is still young enough and to her mommy's word is still gospel that I fear greatly. It's not just the idea of her losing interest in the church, it's that my ex seems to be actively making an effort to push her out. She called me this evening from the bathroom of a Chuck E. Cheese's (apparently to do so in secret) and told me now she's very confused by what's going on and she doesn't understand why her brother and mother are now having this argument. They're due to come down this coming weekend to visit, so it's my chance to sit down with her and try to explain as best I can what's happening, and to try and offer her something to cling to to preserve her testimony. The upside is this will probably motivate me to attend church more regularly, especially on the weekends the kids are here... but I don't know if that'll be enough and I don't know what else to do.

Wow... I did not know that. Thank you.

Paranoid fantasy, eh? In Sweden, there is a law being proposed that would compel pastors to perform gay weddings or lose their ability to perform marriages at all. A politician in CA has proposed a similar measure, and there is discussing in Massachusetts of revoking the tax exempt status of churches for not performing gay marriages, which are legal in that state. Furthermore, Catholic private adoption agencies in San Francisco and in Massachusetts are having to close down because they will not place children with gay couples and are facing the wrath of the state for it. And the LDS Church knows very well what happens when its own policies on marriage run afoul of the U.S. Government's. Anyone remember how polygamy ended? It was either that or the Church was to be disincorporated and the Temples seized. So you'll have to forgive us if we're not so willing to believe that we would be left alone to conduct business as usual should the laws change.

Before I respond to anything else in your post, you show me where I've EVER asserted that gay people haven't been treated badly, or made an excuse for it by saying some one else sufferd worse. Because frankly, I've said no such thing. I'm not sure it would be worth my while to respond to you if you're just going to distort what I say.

Yeah, and I said I knew what you meant but that I didn't want to go off on a tangent. Still don't.

No offense, but it kinda sounds like you'd be dating her with the expectation that things for her would change. Which means you're not really attracted to her, you're attracted to an idealized version of her, the version of her you hope she might turn into. A lot of people have already said you marry whom you date. I'd take that a step further in saying that people don't MEAN to do that, but we do it all the time. Just ask yourself, are you dating just for fun or to find a wife? In either case but especially the latter, you should take some time to visualize life with her assuming NOTHING changes. Are you prepared to live in a house that smells like an ashtray? Do you want to be a father to someone else's child who may or may not be raised to believe in what you do? Do you want to risk never being sealed in the Temple? Do you want to have your own children raised in this environment? I'm guessing there would be a lot of "no" answers in there That being the case, it's probably best not to. I'm not against dating outside of one's religion per se, since that's how I came to know the Church, but one has to understand the disadvantages and risks associated with it. If you can live with those problems, then by all means do so if that's what you feel is right... But whatever you do, don't date her with the hope that you'll "help her" with her smoking habit or any other issues. To do so, as has been noted already, is unfair to her and an unrealistic expectation on your part.

Why would I need to? Why are you asking me this?

What are you talking about...? When have I said anything like this to you? Your last post made some fine points but I didn't feel you were addressing the issue I was referring to when you replied to me, namely, that I find it distasteful to paint people who are against gay marriage as being 'racist.' If I missed something in your post that was directly relevant to that then by all means point it out to me, but suggesting that I've said anything to demonize you or think you're evil is out of line.

Fine, none of which makes it reasonable to compare this to racism. Protected from what? Discrimination? Agreed. Treated like a race? Absolutely not agreed. Having sex with people of the same sex. (I know what you meant, I'm just not willing to go on a tangent.)

If there's one thing about this whole discussion that really irritates me it's the idea that somehow same sex marriage issues equate to interracial marriage issues. Gay=/=Racial minority no matter how often you try to force the metaphor. Homosexuals are not a race unto themselves. To treat them as such is, on some level, a slap in the face for members of minority races who had to struggle (and sometimes still do) to be treated as equals. I once worked as an auto tech and the tech in the stall next to me was black. I asked him once how he felt about that little comparison and he said that it annoyed him, because if you're a member of a minority race, say black, there's no hiding it, you are who you are and everyone sees it instantly. You can never "turn it off" in order to sit at the front of the bus or use the same facilities as everyone else. Nobody has ever uttered the phrase "I didn't know you were black..." to someone they've met in person and not been joking. Mind you, even so, being black is no different than being white except for the culture you live in. On the other hand, homosexuals are who they are by choice on some level. Do they choose who they're attracted to? I believe that they don't, in fairness... But how they act on those feelings is completely under their control. Most of the people in my life who are gay told the they were before I had any idea. So while it might be fair to say that being gay isn't a choice, living the gay lifestyle IS. That's an utterly different situation from racial predjudice. Frankly, I think even those who use that argument are aware of just how thin it is, but use it anyway because nobody likes to be compared to a racist, and it throws them off.

I think the rationale is that if you believe there's nothing morally wrong with same sex marriages, and if those marriages are legal in your state, then on some level showing a picture of a gay couple in a children's book should be no more unusual than showing a hetero set of parents, as is common. The problem with that mentality is that it completely ignores the fact that, like it or not, this is a controversial issue and people have strong feelings about it on both sides. To ignore that, however morally justified you might feel you are in doing so, is to ask for trouble and will only serve to make things worse. (I've been told, in debate, that this SHOULDN'T be a controversial issue. Well, it is. I wish there weren't any controversy over whether nor not Mormons are Christians, but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.) People have tried to suggest that this issue is somehow invalid because the video I linked to used an appeal to emotion to get to the audience. Well of course it does. That's the point. This video isn't a documentary it's essentially a campaign video. To dismiss it as no more than propaganda is a mistake, however, because it doesn't change the fact that parents are being told that they have no right to know ahead of time what their kids will be taught, and are in a position ion which they feel they have no recourse. No matter where you are on the issue, backing people into a corner is never a smart idea. We don't know whether they went to the school superintendent or not. I'd say they probably did, and maybe it didn't make it into the video because nothing noteworthy came of it. We don't know all of the facts precisely because this isn't a documentary. But we do know some of them, and I find them troubling. That doesn't make me a bigot, a homophobe or a hater.

I take exception to this. Strong exception. If you're living in a circumstance that permits you to oversimplify the issue in this way then you should be grateful for your situation. There are those of us who truly could not afford to be on a single income even if we cut out everything but bread and water from the grocery list, lit candles to avoid an electric bill, and heated the house by burning newspapers. Please, don't pretend knowledge of people and circumstances you can't possibly have any insight into. The public schools in this area are quite poor, and to casually suggest that people in my position are simply making excuses is to question our love and devotion for our children, for whom we would make any sacrifice. I resent that.

The problem I'm seeing here is that people are saying "morality should be taught in the home" out of one side of their mouth, but then insisting that public schools are doing nothing wrong by normalizing homosexual marriage in the point of view of the students.

That makes perfect sense at the High School level, but in the case of the family in the video, we're talking about Kindergarten age kids. At that age, kids don't have much in the way of critical thinking ability. They rely on their parents and their teachers to provide them with information. When those sources conflict, that's a serious problem for the child and can lead to issues later. Either way, the credibility of one or the other is going to be damaged for all time.

I do agree. I think each person need to express their love of their country by using whatever talents Heavenly Father has given them. Some do it by running for office and trying to make an honest difference. Some do it by joining the military. Some do it by simply being the best American they can be in whatever their chosen vocation is. Some combine two or more of these. Here's another way, and this is my favorite: I teach my kids to love their country as much as I do and to promote its well being in the best way they can. If that means military service, Great. If it means heading up the next major advance in technology, Great. if it simply means raising their children the same way, Great! Anybody who presumes to judge the patriotism of others is making a mistake. It's like questioning someone's Christianity. How can you truly know what's in someone's heart? Soldiers are honored as they are precisely because they do what most cannot or will not. THAT is why they deserve the kudos they've earned. To disparage the patriotism of others simply for not having served is to make a mockery of that honor.

People already argue the issue as a Civil Rights issue akin to the racial struggles of the 1960s. I've even been called a bigot because I once said I'd not let my male children wear dresses. (Who, exactly, I'm supposed to be bigoted against was never made clear, but meh.)

If there was a point to that I missed it.

I think that's exactly right. Increasingly, schools are becoming political indoctrination centers rather than educational centers. It's not just about the gay marriage issue, either. More and more we're seeing moral and ethical messages being taught to the kids that are hostile to Christianity, and it's gotten to the point now where it's the Christians being demonized for it. You should see some of the things being said on that other forum about the parents in this video. I'm not sure I'd call homosexuality on par with religion, but the mentality that promotes it certainly acts like one. I absolutely agree that Atheism has become a religion unto itself.

He'd probably be accused of hate speech in some areas, and labeled as ignorant everywhere. The big comeback to those points (not saying I agree with them, just letting you know what I've seen) Is that homosexuals are genetically an advantage to a population because they... well I forget the 'reasoning' behind it but it does ignore the fact that Darwinism is all about the ability of the individual to survive long enough to pass its genetic traits on. It has nothing to do with the benefit of the community.

That's my biggest gripe right there. When I debate this stuff on that site the biggest replies seem to come in the form of either: A )Being against same sex marriage is equivalent to being against interracial marriage and is thus a form of bigotry. Since bigotry is never okay then there's only one valid point of view and that's that same sex marriage is A-ok. or B )By trying to opt out of the curriculum for their kids, the parents are seeking to impose their own beliefs on others (apparently this includes the school as well...). I don't see either argument as valid but they do stick to it with all their might. What gets lost in the translation here is that nobody is getting up on a soapbox and railing about the evils of homosexuality or how other people choose to live their lives. All we want is to be able to decide what moral lessons our kids learn. We don't concern ourselves with what other people want to teach their kids. Like it or not, public schools are for everybody and are supposed to stay out of moral indoctrination.

Ah, gotcha. And yeah, that's always the first reply you hear from people supporting this sort of thing. It's similar to "Well if you don't like the content of your TV, turn it off!" Well, if it were only that simple. As if somehow that meant anything goes just because it's "optional." Besides, my taxes pay for the public school indoctrination whether my kids go or not. That's fair... It breaks my heart. Sometimes I think it would be awesome to go back in time and sit down with George Washington and tell him about how great this country is and how well their ideas worked, and then I think about how I'd have to tell him about things like this and I realize that maybe it's just as well I can't.