secretsister

I would say his reaction is within normal limits, for sure, but since he seems concerned about his reaction, there may be some feelings he needs to deal with but doesn't understand. I only say this because I was adopted and knew my biological mother too. Over time, I've had strong feelings surface that I wasn't aware of previously. He may not have had a current relationship with his biological mother, but at one time there was a 9 month relationship and then a traumatic separation. (Yes, infants know and recognize their mothers at birth and have definite stress reactions when separated.) Secretsister He may be interested in a book by Joe Sol called "Adoption Healing; A Path to Recovery"

Mililani, I'm so sorry you have had to go through this. I have just gotten myself out of an abusive marriage too, so I know how heart wrenching it is when you try to be Christ-like, try to follow all of the counsel you hear about how to have a successful marriage and love more. In a marriage such as this, it seems that the more you give, the more you try, the more you turn the other cheek, the more they see you as weak and the abuse gets worse. Then, of course, the cycle includes the part where they love you and treat you wonderfully for a time, making it even harder to give up trying. Mililani, believe the others when they say it will eventually become physical abuse, if it hasn't already. Have an escape plan, with a bag for you and your children ready to go. It was my hope, too, that my husband would be humbled by losing me or by being confronted by church leaders... that he would get the mental health treatment he needed...he didn't. Looking back, I wish that, while I was waiting to see, I had prepared for the end of the marriage financially and legally. Abusers get even nastier when it comes time for court. I'm so sorry. (I see that you confronted him too. In my experience, once I got the nerve to confront him, the abuse got much, much worse. Be careful, please.) I do not know where you live, but I called the Domestic Violence hotline. You do not have to be in imminent danger or even still with him to call. I am now getting counseling from someone who has been trained specifically for abusive relationships and it has been invaluable! She even goes with me to court! (This gives moral support as well as the judge seeing the presence of a DV counselor with you.) Loudmouth "seemed" cold hearted in the statements about you ending up in the same boat again. In our situation, it is easy to get defensive.... we've had to defend ourselves for so long! However, I am beginning to see how my best qualities are also the ones that attract predators. I am learning, thru the DV counseling, how to spot an abuser early on. This, after my second abusive marriage.... I was SO sure my recent ex was not abusive and that he was a good man. He even came recommended as a "righteous priesthood holder" by stake leaders. They are good at fooling everyone! Even the strong and smart ones like us! I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope you have good support with friends and family. You sound like a strong woman, you will be OK in the end. Secretsister

Hi Applepansy! I do miss our chats. Life just got too difficult to handle for a bit. When we last spoke, I didn't think it could get worse, but it did. The divorce process was even worse. I'm in counseling for domestic violence and that is helping a lot. I do not expect church leaders to have any sort of super human power to stop the abuse or wave a magic wand and make him repent. Nor do I expect they could change the way abusers manipulate the courts (that is happening to me too). They can only hold the abuser accountable within the authority they are given. That's all I would like to see.... (I believe our area authority is David L. Cook. I'm just not sure how to contact him.) Secretsister

Yes, I am upset, hurt and angry. Yes, I am in the midst of grieving and recovery after severe abuse. Yes, I have anger even at Heavenly Father for the fact that He confirmed this marriage was "right" to me. (That is another topic, in which I do not need advice. I am successfully working through my grief.) I do not recall ever saying anything about leaving the church. I am NOT being eaten alive inside. In fact, I am beginning to heal now that I have gotten myself out of the abusive situation. Being told to "stay and forgive" almost destroyed me. In fact, my last step in this healing process is to know, in my heart, that I have done ALL in my power to see the government of the Lord's church work properly. Thus the request for help in contacting the area president. Secretsister

In speaking with my stake president, this is exactly what I felt. He is a very caring, giving man who loves to see the good in all people. That is admirable, but it can be damaging to all involved. As with our children, we need a healthy balance between mercy/ love and discipline. If we did not hold them accountable for their actions, they would not learn to be responsible adults. If I felt that I have done all I could, I would let this go. As I've tried to say before, after I put it in the hands of a higher priesthood authority, then I can let it go. Secretsister

Thank you for the replies. You may have no idea what it means to be abused and I will try to understand when your advise seems callous. Of course, you do not have the details and it is difficult for me to give a comprehensive explanation in such a forum. I apolagize if my statements seemed "not nice" or contradictory. Again, if you have not been in my situation, you can't possibly understand. For those who spoke of leaders needing proof: I am the 2nd wife he's done this too (with the same stake president.) He admitted physical abuse to our branch president, there are police reports and I've needed church welfare assistance. The stake president went to him about paying the bills and meeting his obligations and he refused. They also have a copy of the state's findings from the child abuse. They also have a copy of a letter he wrote to me which was very abusive as well as a tape recording of his verbal abuse. We also saw a church counselor who witnessed some things. To those who say it isn't my business to worry about the next victim or that I should let it go and let the appointed authorities handle it, I wonder what would happen to our world if we took that attitude with everything in life. Maybe we should not stand up and speak out against any injustice we see in our life? Just because I have a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true and Jesus is the Christ doesn't mean I should not stand up for what is right and speak out for what is wrong with how the organization of the church is actually functioning. The whole "checklist" post is uber naive. I certainly did not marry someone simply because he had a temple recommend. He is a sociopath. If you have never been made aware of knowing one, then you have no way of understanding. They are very good at deception. They play the part very, very well and are slippery. They can convince just about anyone of how truly good they are. Yes, it is true that another woman will have to make her own decision about him. I just don't see how it can be justified to allow him one more tool in his arsenal. Men like him "hide in the light." They behave in Christ-like ways, serving others, dressing the part, even shedding a tear at the appropriate moment. Then, when the hook is in, they let their wrath out on you. It seems that WmLee may understand such a person. They are hard to pin down and hard to catch. To me, just one more reason to do something about it when at last you do have enough evidence to do so. President Gordon B. Hinckley quoted: “The purposes of Church discipline are to (1) save the souls of transgressors; (2) protect the innocent; and (3) safeguard the … integrity … of the Church” (General Handbook of Instructions, March 1989, page 10–11). I believe that ignoring the evidence and not pursuing this, the local leaders are failing all three of these purposes. 1) In spite of all of it, I do love him. He is ill and refuses to see it. He needs to be humbled, to even have a chance at seeing the need for repentance. He is being allowed to "live forever in his sins." 2) I have not been protected and his next victim is not being protected. To the one who seems to think it is "her problem", President Hinckley didn't seem to agree with you. 3) When the bottom begins to crumble, the top is in jeopardy of falling. Whether or not I want "revenge" as some of you judge, doesn't change the fact that the government of the church, in such a case, is not functioning the way the Lord wants it to. If individual saints do not care about the integrity of the church, it leaves me wondering why.

He is my ex as of a week ago. He was abusive in our marriage. He came highly recommended by my priesthood leaders when I began dating him. Now, I find out that he was very abusive to his first wife and children.... no church leaders believed her. They say they believe me, but the do nothing to stop him. I worry because we teach our daughters, from the time they are 12 to "look for a man who can take you to the temple." What we allow, we promote. I feel like the prophets are trying to speak out against abuse but it is not filtering down to local leaders. They seem to be saying that it is OK to keep the gate open wide letting the wolves in to eat our sheep. I understand the need to let it go and let the Lord deal with it. I also feel a responsibility to the next dear sister who will trust in that recommend when he takes her to the temple on a date. I can tell you that his abuse was NOT the most damaging thing to me. The way the church has handled it is shaking my faith like never before. It has become difficult for me to feel the Lord will take care of it, after all, he is a man too. They seem to really stick together. If I can simply make sure the area president is aware of what has happened, then I can let it go and move on.... regardless of what is done. Is that too much to ask?

Hi, I haven't posted in quite awhile. I've been going through a very tough situation with an abusive marriage. I'm struggling with the fact that my abusive (ex)husband is being enabled by local leaders. What I read from prophets and from church doctrine and what I see happening are two very different things. I strongly believe that enabling someone to continue in sin does a disservice to that person as it does not lead to being humbled and seeking repentance. I also feel it does a disservice to those who may be the next victim. I have spoken to my stake president. I am not satisfied with what I was told nor with what is being done about the situation. I am having no luck in finding out who I can go to next. I am thinking that it would be the area president, but I can't find out who that is or how to write to him. I discovered that writing to Church Headquarters only gets your letter sent right back to your stake president, which feels like a betrayal. President Gordon B. Hinckley I simply need to write a letter to someone of authority and get an explanation as to why it is OK to abuse me. I was told that because he answered the temple recommend questions correctly, he was given the recommend. The fact that they know he lied made no difference. To me, it means I am not important, as a woman in the Lord's church. Does anyone know how to reach the area authority for NY? Thanks, Secretsister

I have a daughter at home, but she is mine from my previous marriage. Thanks for your input. He has not been mean to her in any way.... other than what he does to her mother... Secretsister

I thought I'd post an update on my situation. Those of you who warned me to get out and be safe were right. My husband got physical with me. Luckily, I didn't get hurt that badly. He did the whole "I'm sorry" and bring me flowers thing. Big deal. We agreed to a weekend seperation, just to get a break from the tension between us. He ended up finding a place to live and said he isn't coming back.... until I "stop acting like this." What would "this" be? Not tolerating his abuse? Not agreeing to be his little slave? Now, I have ambivalent feelings. I'm not walking on eggshells in my own home and that feels so good! But, I still love him and I miss him... the good things in him. I want him to get the help he needs and I want our marriage to be ok. It is hard to accept that I can't make him do that... and to realize that he is the way he is and will not likely want to change. Secretsister

Rachel, I'm so sorry to hear of your pain. I understand as I am going through a very similar situation right now. I can tell you that your feelings are normal and expected. It is hard to let go of the dream we had for a good "mormon" marriage and family. I'm glad you are getting help in church and professional. Keep working on improving yourself. Realize that you can't work on your husband, he has to do that. That's the part I hate... that nobody has a magic wand to wave over my husband and make him choose to get help. I agree with those who suggest getting out... for now. You need to be safe, physically. Also, you may not be able to think clearly enough or de-stress enough to do real work on your issues while living in such a heated environment. Perhaps you both could agree on a temporary separation so that when you go to couseling together you can think and act more clearly? There are some posts about my situation if you want to read them. It helps me to know I'm not the only one to get myself into a mess like this. I understand your anger toward God too. I would say try not to have it, try to have faith.... but He does understand your feelings and will still love you and will forgive you for your anger too. Prayers are with you, Secretsister

Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you know I'm ok. The weekend was horrible, but as it turns out, church leaders convinced my husband to go to marriage counselling. He went with me to my appointment and actually liked the counselor and feels that he wants to keep going. He admits he has done some very wrong things and has taken some steps that show me he cares about our marriage. This gives me some cautious hope. I'm feeling more positive. Please continue with the prayers on our behalf. Thank you so much for your support. I know this will not be an easy fix. I know he will cycle again. I hope that with the support of church leaders and the counselor, he can get help. Secretsister

Applepansy, Thank you for this. I'd like to hear more about. What exactly do you mean and can you give me some examples? Thanks, Secretsister

Yes, I came for advice. Mostly, I came to vent. I know what my options are and I do not like any of them at the moment. Have you ever put off acting on something because it was super important and you didn't have any confimation from the Holy Ghost to proceed? Have you ever been afraid to act because it might mean destroying a relationship with someone very important to you? Have you ever struggled being torn between strong feelings of marriage and its importance and breaking your marriage up? Have you ever taken time to grieve the loss of something you really loved or do you just "get over it." I've only been to 3 therapy sessions and spoke to my BP for the first time a few weeks ago. I've been hit with the reality that my husband probably has a mental disorder. Trust me, I hear all of you. I know what you are saying. But, I need time to process all of this, grieve the loss of what I thought I would have when I got a strong confirmation to go ahead and marry him. My way of processing is to talk it out, so I can think about it more clearly. When I post what happens here, it saves my friend from being dragged down too much. She always listens because she loves me, but I know it isn't easy. You do NOT have to read my posts nor respond, but I still get to vent and the ones who do respond give me courage and strength... really, you do. Secretsister

I kind of thought things were going to hit the fan again after this weekend. It is much, much sooner than normal, but the signs were there. When he gave a talk Sunday, he got overly emotional. I've noticed that he does that when he's about to get nasty. I've been trying hard to be careful how I act and what I say as not to set him off, but alas, it is too unpredictable. Last night, we were reading scriptures together and he got really negative saying he "just can't understand why Christ had to die (after already atoning in Gethsaemane) and why should those who crucified him be held accountable when it was what they were supposed to do." I said something about Christ dying to show us there will be a resurrection and I also said something to the effect of us not being able to understand everything in this life. He got super upset with me and told me I was discounting his feelings. no matter what I said, it was wrong. He told me he would no longer read scriptures with me. I admitted that we do have difficulty discussing spiritual things, which is why I usually keep my thoughts and questions to myself. He got more angry and said, "OH! I see where we really are in this marriage." He said "this marriage" with disgust. Anyway, he accused me of saying the things I said because I was vengeful. I apologized and explained that I could see how he may feel I was discounting his feelings, but I assured him that it had not been my intent and there was no vengeance in my heart at all. I told him I was sorry if I hurt his feelings and I certainly didn't mean it. He refused my apology and just kept saying hurtful things.... I don't know what, I tuned it out somewhat. He kept on and on until I reminded him that 30 minutes earlier he had been on his knees praying for God to help us be quick to forgive one another. I told him that if he was going to pray for such things, he should at least make an effort to do it. Then I told him if he wasn't going to do that, then "at least shut up so I can sleep!" Literally got a grunt/ growl when I said good morning to him today. He didn't speak to me at all and refused to bless the food with me. I guess he's punishing me by doing what I said... shutting up. What a baby! I spoke with my BP this morning while my daughter was in seminary. He thinks it may be time for him or a stake leader to confront my husband and tell him point blank that he has an illness and needs to get help for it whether he feels he needs it or not. If he cares about his marriage, he needs to do it because HE is destroying it. I suppose I'm ready for that. Except for the temporal concerns.... which are really scary as I gave up my good day job. If I didn't have a mortgage on this house, I'd have no problem just walking away, selling it, whatever. I also have a missionary out in the field who needs support and has not one clue any of this is happening. I always feel like I can have faith and get through any trial if I have a husband who can get through it with me. That seems not to be my lot in life! Also, where is the fine line between having faith in a miracle and being realistic? Thanks... again, for listening, Secretsister