secretsister

I would say his reaction is within normal limits, for sure, but since he seems concerned about his reaction, there may be some feelings he needs to deal with but doesn't understand. I only say this because I was adopted and knew my biological mother too. Over time, I've had strong feelings surface that I wasn't aware of previously. He may not have had a current relationship with his biological mother, but at one time there was a 9 month relationship and then a traumatic separation. (Yes, infants know and recognize their mothers at birth and have definite stress reactions when separated.) Secretsister He may be interested in a book by Joe Sol called "Adoption Healing; A Path to Recovery"

Mililani, I'm so sorry you have had to go through this. I have just gotten myself out of an abusive marriage too, so I know how heart wrenching it is when you try to be Christ-like, try to follow all of the counsel you hear about how to have a successful marriage and love more. In a marriage such as this, it seems that the more you give, the more you try, the more you turn the other cheek, the more they see you as weak and the abuse gets worse. Then, of course, the cycle includes the part where they love you and treat you wonderfully for a time, making it even harder to give up trying. Mililani, believe the others when they say it will eventually become physical abuse, if it hasn't already. Have an escape plan, with a bag for you and your children ready to go. It was my hope, too, that my husband would be humbled by losing me or by being confronted by church leaders... that he would get the mental health treatment he needed...he didn't. Looking back, I wish that, while I was waiting to see, I had prepared for the end of the marriage financially and legally. Abusers get even nastier when it comes time for court. I'm so sorry. (I see that you confronted him too. In my experience, once I got the nerve to confront him, the abuse got much, much worse. Be careful, please.) I do not know where you live, but I called the Domestic Violence hotline. You do not have to be in imminent danger or even still with him to call. I am now getting counseling from someone who has been trained specifically for abusive relationships and it has been invaluable! She even goes with me to court! (This gives moral support as well as the judge seeing the presence of a DV counselor with you.) Loudmouth "seemed" cold hearted in the statements about you ending up in the same boat again. In our situation, it is easy to get defensive.... we've had to defend ourselves for so long! However, I am beginning to see how my best qualities are also the ones that attract predators. I am learning, thru the DV counseling, how to spot an abuser early on. This, after my second abusive marriage.... I was SO sure my recent ex was not abusive and that he was a good man. He even came recommended as a "righteous priesthood holder" by stake leaders. They are good at fooling everyone! Even the strong and smart ones like us! I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope you have good support with friends and family. You sound like a strong woman, you will be OK in the end. Secretsister

Hi Applepansy! I do miss our chats. Life just got too difficult to handle for a bit. When we last spoke, I didn't think it could get worse, but it did. The divorce process was even worse. I'm in counseling for domestic violence and that is helping a lot. I do not expect church leaders to have any sort of super human power to stop the abuse or wave a magic wand and make him repent. Nor do I expect they could change the way abusers manipulate the courts (that is happening to me too). They can only hold the abuser accountable within the authority they are given. That's all I would like to see.... (I believe our area authority is David L. Cook. I'm just not sure how to contact him.) Secretsister

Yes, I am upset, hurt and angry. Yes, I am in the midst of grieving and recovery after severe abuse. Yes, I have anger even at Heavenly Father for the fact that He confirmed this marriage was "right" to me. (That is another topic, in which I do not need advice. I am successfully working through my grief.) I do not recall ever saying anything about leaving the church. I am NOT being eaten alive inside. In fact, I am beginning to heal now that I have gotten myself out of the abusive situation. Being told to "stay and forgive" almost destroyed me. In fact, my last step in this healing process is to know, in my heart, that I have done ALL in my power to see the government of the Lord's church work properly. Thus the request for help in contacting the area president. Secretsister

In speaking with my stake president, this is exactly what I felt. He is a very caring, giving man who loves to see the good in all people. That is admirable, but it can be damaging to all involved. As with our children, we need a healthy balance between mercy/ love and discipline. If we did not hold them accountable for their actions, they would not learn to be responsible adults. If I felt that I have done all I could, I would let this go. As I've tried to say before, after I put it in the hands of a higher priesthood authority, then I can let it go. Secretsister

Thank you for the replies. You may have no idea what it means to be abused and I will try to understand when your advise seems callous. Of course, you do not have the details and it is difficult for me to give a comprehensive explanation in such a forum. I apolagize if my statements seemed "not nice" or contradictory. Again, if you have not been in my situation, you can't possibly understand. For those who spoke of leaders needing proof: I am the 2nd wife he's done this too (with the same stake president.) He admitted physical abuse to our branch president, there are police reports and I've needed church welfare assistance. The stake president went to him about paying the bills and meeting his obligations and he refused. They also have a copy of the state's findings from the child abuse. They also have a copy of a letter he wrote to me which was very abusive as well as a tape recording of his verbal abuse. We also saw a church counselor who witnessed some things. To those who say it isn't my business to worry about the next victim or that I should let it go and let the appointed authorities handle it, I wonder what would happen to our world if we took that attitude with everything in life. Maybe we should not stand up and speak out against any injustice we see in our life? Just because I have a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true and Jesus is the Christ doesn't mean I should not stand up for what is right and speak out for what is wrong with how the organization of the church is actually functioning. The whole "checklist" post is uber naive. I certainly did not marry someone simply because he had a temple recommend. He is a sociopath. If you have never been made aware of knowing one, then you have no way of understanding. They are very good at deception. They play the part very, very well and are slippery. They can convince just about anyone of how truly good they are. Yes, it is true that another woman will have to make her own decision about him. I just don't see how it can be justified to allow him one more tool in his arsenal. Men like him "hide in the light." They behave in Christ-like ways, serving others, dressing the part, even shedding a tear at the appropriate moment. Then, when the hook is in, they let their wrath out on you. It seems that WmLee may understand such a person. They are hard to pin down and hard to catch. To me, just one more reason to do something about it when at last you do have enough evidence to do so. President Gordon B. Hinckley quoted: “The purposes of Church discipline are to (1) save the souls of transgressors; (2) protect the innocent; and (3) safeguard the … integrity … of the Church” (General Handbook of Instructions, March 1989, page 10–11). I believe that ignoring the evidence and not pursuing this, the local leaders are failing all three of these purposes. 1) In spite of all of it, I do love him. He is ill and refuses to see it. He needs to be humbled, to even have a chance at seeing the need for repentance. He is being allowed to "live forever in his sins." 2) I have not been protected and his next victim is not being protected. To the one who seems to think it is "her problem", President Hinckley didn't seem to agree with you. 3) When the bottom begins to crumble, the top is in jeopardy of falling. Whether or not I want "revenge" as some of you judge, doesn't change the fact that the government of the church, in such a case, is not functioning the way the Lord wants it to. If individual saints do not care about the integrity of the church, it leaves me wondering why.

He is my ex as of a week ago. He was abusive in our marriage. He came highly recommended by my priesthood leaders when I began dating him. Now, I find out that he was very abusive to his first wife and children.... no church leaders believed her. They say they believe me, but the do nothing to stop him. I worry because we teach our daughters, from the time they are 12 to "look for a man who can take you to the temple." What we allow, we promote. I feel like the prophets are trying to speak out against abuse but it is not filtering down to local leaders. They seem to be saying that it is OK to keep the gate open wide letting the wolves in to eat our sheep. I understand the need to let it go and let the Lord deal with it. I also feel a responsibility to the next dear sister who will trust in that recommend when he takes her to the temple on a date. I can tell you that his abuse was NOT the most damaging thing to me. The way the church has handled it is shaking my faith like never before. It has become difficult for me to feel the Lord will take care of it, after all, he is a man too. They seem to really stick together. If I can simply make sure the area president is aware of what has happened, then I can let it go and move on.... regardless of what is done. Is that too much to ask?

Hi, I haven't posted in quite awhile. I've been going through a very tough situation with an abusive marriage. I'm struggling with the fact that my abusive (ex)husband is being enabled by local leaders. What I read from prophets and from church doctrine and what I see happening are two very different things. I strongly believe that enabling someone to continue in sin does a disservice to that person as it does not lead to being humbled and seeking repentance. I also feel it does a disservice to those who may be the next victim. I have spoken to my stake president. I am not satisfied with what I was told nor with what is being done about the situation. I am having no luck in finding out who I can go to next. I am thinking that it would be the area president, but I can't find out who that is or how to write to him. I discovered that writing to Church Headquarters only gets your letter sent right back to your stake president, which feels like a betrayal. President Gordon B. Hinckley I simply need to write a letter to someone of authority and get an explanation as to why it is OK to abuse me. I was told that because he answered the temple recommend questions correctly, he was given the recommend. The fact that they know he lied made no difference. To me, it means I am not important, as a woman in the Lord's church. Does anyone know how to reach the area authority for NY? Thanks, Secretsister

I have a daughter at home, but she is mine from my previous marriage. Thanks for your input. He has not been mean to her in any way.... other than what he does to her mother... Secretsister

I thought I'd post an update on my situation. Those of you who warned me to get out and be safe were right. My husband got physical with me. Luckily, I didn't get hurt that badly. He did the whole "I'm sorry" and bring me flowers thing. Big deal. We agreed to a weekend seperation, just to get a break from the tension between us. He ended up finding a place to live and said he isn't coming back.... until I "stop acting like this." What would "this" be? Not tolerating his abuse? Not agreeing to be his little slave? Now, I have ambivalent feelings. I'm not walking on eggshells in my own home and that feels so good! But, I still love him and I miss him... the good things in him. I want him to get the help he needs and I want our marriage to be ok. It is hard to accept that I can't make him do that... and to realize that he is the way he is and will not likely want to change. Secretsister

Rachel, I'm so sorry to hear of your pain. I understand as I am going through a very similar situation right now. I can tell you that your feelings are normal and expected. It is hard to let go of the dream we had for a good "mormon" marriage and family. I'm glad you are getting help in church and professional. Keep working on improving yourself. Realize that you can't work on your husband, he has to do that. That's the part I hate... that nobody has a magic wand to wave over my husband and make him choose to get help. I agree with those who suggest getting out... for now. You need to be safe, physically. Also, you may not be able to think clearly enough or de-stress enough to do real work on your issues while living in such a heated environment. Perhaps you both could agree on a temporary separation so that when you go to couseling together you can think and act more clearly? There are some posts about my situation if you want to read them. It helps me to know I'm not the only one to get myself into a mess like this. I understand your anger toward God too. I would say try not to have it, try to have faith.... but He does understand your feelings and will still love you and will forgive you for your anger too. Prayers are with you, Secretsister

Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you know I'm ok. The weekend was horrible, but as it turns out, church leaders convinced my husband to go to marriage counselling. He went with me to my appointment and actually liked the counselor and feels that he wants to keep going. He admits he has done some very wrong things and has taken some steps that show me he cares about our marriage. This gives me some cautious hope. I'm feeling more positive. Please continue with the prayers on our behalf. Thank you so much for your support. I know this will not be an easy fix. I know he will cycle again. I hope that with the support of church leaders and the counselor, he can get help. Secretsister

Applepansy, Thank you for this. I'd like to hear more about. What exactly do you mean and can you give me some examples? Thanks, Secretsister

Yes, I came for advice. Mostly, I came to vent. I know what my options are and I do not like any of them at the moment. Have you ever put off acting on something because it was super important and you didn't have any confimation from the Holy Ghost to proceed? Have you ever been afraid to act because it might mean destroying a relationship with someone very important to you? Have you ever struggled being torn between strong feelings of marriage and its importance and breaking your marriage up? Have you ever taken time to grieve the loss of something you really loved or do you just "get over it." I've only been to 3 therapy sessions and spoke to my BP for the first time a few weeks ago. I've been hit with the reality that my husband probably has a mental disorder. Trust me, I hear all of you. I know what you are saying. But, I need time to process all of this, grieve the loss of what I thought I would have when I got a strong confirmation to go ahead and marry him. My way of processing is to talk it out, so I can think about it more clearly. When I post what happens here, it saves my friend from being dragged down too much. She always listens because she loves me, but I know it isn't easy. You do NOT have to read my posts nor respond, but I still get to vent and the ones who do respond give me courage and strength... really, you do. Secretsister

I kind of thought things were going to hit the fan again after this weekend. It is much, much sooner than normal, but the signs were there. When he gave a talk Sunday, he got overly emotional. I've noticed that he does that when he's about to get nasty. I've been trying hard to be careful how I act and what I say as not to set him off, but alas, it is too unpredictable. Last night, we were reading scriptures together and he got really negative saying he "just can't understand why Christ had to die (after already atoning in Gethsaemane) and why should those who crucified him be held accountable when it was what they were supposed to do." I said something about Christ dying to show us there will be a resurrection and I also said something to the effect of us not being able to understand everything in this life. He got super upset with me and told me I was discounting his feelings. no matter what I said, it was wrong. He told me he would no longer read scriptures with me. I admitted that we do have difficulty discussing spiritual things, which is why I usually keep my thoughts and questions to myself. He got more angry and said, "OH! I see where we really are in this marriage." He said "this marriage" with disgust. Anyway, he accused me of saying the things I said because I was vengeful. I apologized and explained that I could see how he may feel I was discounting his feelings, but I assured him that it had not been my intent and there was no vengeance in my heart at all. I told him I was sorry if I hurt his feelings and I certainly didn't mean it. He refused my apology and just kept saying hurtful things.... I don't know what, I tuned it out somewhat. He kept on and on until I reminded him that 30 minutes earlier he had been on his knees praying for God to help us be quick to forgive one another. I told him that if he was going to pray for such things, he should at least make an effort to do it. Then I told him if he wasn't going to do that, then "at least shut up so I can sleep!" Literally got a grunt/ growl when I said good morning to him today. He didn't speak to me at all and refused to bless the food with me. I guess he's punishing me by doing what I said... shutting up. What a baby! I spoke with my BP this morning while my daughter was in seminary. He thinks it may be time for him or a stake leader to confront my husband and tell him point blank that he has an illness and needs to get help for it whether he feels he needs it or not. If he cares about his marriage, he needs to do it because HE is destroying it. I suppose I'm ready for that. Except for the temporal concerns.... which are really scary as I gave up my good day job. If I didn't have a mortgage on this house, I'd have no problem just walking away, selling it, whatever. I also have a missionary out in the field who needs support and has not one clue any of this is happening. I always feel like I can have faith and get through any trial if I have a husband who can get through it with me. That seems not to be my lot in life! Also, where is the fine line between having faith in a miracle and being realistic? Thanks... again, for listening, Secretsister

Thanks for the laugh! It is funny because it is so true! This weekend, he has been super nice. Not one single negative comment, sincere thanks and praise galore. It's just the point in his cycle he is in. I feel calmer, but happiness is difficult because I know from experience that it is only a matter of time before we go through this whole thing again. The only difference is what it will be over. You are right about me trying to please him. I would have done the pumpkin thing anyway because I DO enjoy it. But, I do set myself up. I think, in my mind, that he will be happy with what I've done. Then, when he complains, I am more disappointed than if I had no expectations. This weekend, I'm perfect in every way without doing anything. I can't seem to do anything wrong. It's a hard way to live. I am acting the same and doing things the same as always. It's perfect and wonderful now, next week, I may be a complete failure. I am praying, specifically, that he will come to the realization that he has an illness and will seek help for it. Thanks for the support. Secretsister

I've been crying an aweful lot lately, but I actually got a chuckle out of this one last night: Remember the pumpkin pie with too much whipped cream? Well, I served him a piece of pie last night. I took a bit of the cream off of his and split it between myself and my daughter. He said, "There isn't as much whipped cream on this as last night." I explained that he didn't like so much so I took it off and put it on mine. As he reached over and took a big scoop off of my pie, he said, "It IS too much, but I like it!" I'm relating to what Countrygirl said about not being responsible to make him happy. The fact is, I can't! When he said "Yuck!" about a mac n cheese recipe I printed off, I told him to get his mind wrapped around it because I was going to make it for dinner one of these days. Yes, I can be sarcastic and sometimes not nice too. Right now, it's survival. Thank you, Rainofgold, for your nice comments on me being a kind, loving wife. I do think I am and I do think he's lucky to have me. It's completely incongruent with what is actually happening and that makes it hard for me to understand. Right now, he's in a fairly normal, loving mode. It gives me time to lick my wounds and bolster up for the next blow up. I wonder what it will be? I'm thinking about getting a job to save some money in case I do need to leave. We've always said that his money is our money and my money is our money. Any ideas on how to keep my own money??? Thanks, Secretsister

Very cyclic, some worse than others. The counselor was telling ME things that are happening at home based on his knowledge of bipolar. Without seeing him, he can't diagnose, but he's pretty sure this is the case. The sad thing is that there is medication that could really help, but getting someone with bipolar to see the need is challenging. Secretsister

I've thought of that... and he must know it is a possibility as he's warned me if I ever record him he will divorce me. Well, it will be one way to push the envelope, huh? If I dare do it, it will either help him see he has a problem or it will get me out of this quicker. My counselor also helped me today, to see that it is not me. I get so I worry that I'm the one with the problem. He assured me it is not. (He does call it abusive, too. I'm the one who doesn't.) Secretsister

Now that my husband's mood is better and he's acting more normally, I'm trying very hard to be positive and forgiving. I've been going out of my way to do nice things for him and thank him for anything he does that is good. I suppose he may be trying to do the same. If he is, we are both failing miserably. Two days ago, I worked hard at doing things around the house I know are important to him. I made bread and then, for dinner, made up a recipe with thick pork chops I stuffed with apple filling. I made baked sweet potatos and green beans, some of his favorites. His words: "Wow, I've never seen pork chops stuffed with anything. I like it that you made up your own recipe, the apples are great! But, the pork seems dry." Last night, I grilled a steak, made sauteed onions and mushrooms, salad and pumpkin soup made from some we grew in our garden. I made two pumpkin pies too. It took me all day as I had to cut and scoop out the pumpkins, bake them, puree the cooked pumpkin, then make the pies. I used the left over to make the soup. Our pumpkins didn't do well this year, so I only had 5 very small pie pumpkins. He sat down to dinner and began eating the soup. I mentioned that it was made from our own pumkins. He literally dropped his spoon in the bowl, looked angry and said, "What?! You used the pumkins for this soup?" I had to explain that I made two pies and didn't have enough pumpkin left for another pie, so I made the soup. Then, he was ok with it. His next comment was, "The steak is tough." Later, he did say thank you for the dinner and told me it was good. I served the pie, which he said was "excellent, but there's an awful lot of whipped cream on it. It's too much." Earlier in the week, he asked me to give him some variety in his lunch. Prior to that, he had asked me for PB&J every day and said he has had that for years and that is what he wants. Now, he said he would occasionally like a different kind of sandwhich. So, I made him a turkey sandwich on Tuesday. This morning, as we are eating breakfast, he said, "If you're going to give me a messy sandwich like the other day, can you put a napkin in my lunch?" I said I would and I think it's completely fine for him to ask that of me. Then, he said, "There was way too much meat on that sandwich. It isn't necessary to put that much on." On one hand, I understand that you need to communicate your needs, wishes, etc. I also see that he doesn't say anything obviously mean like "This meal is lousy, when are you gonna learn to cook?" Why, then, do I feel so depressed? This morning, he also saw a piece of paper on the table and asked what it was. I said it was a recipe for Spicy Mac N Cheese. He said, "Yuck." After he left for work, I cried like a baby. I feel like I just can't please him. Even when he does something for me, it has a remark with it. He brings flowers. I thank him. He says, "They were only $3, don't expect them when we move the office and I don't drive by Aldi anymore." I've tried talking to him about this in the past. He says I'm too sensative and he isn't saying anything wrong. I've made a huge effort to get tougher skin and it was working ok. I think his last mood swing where he told me I was completely useless, did me in. Now, all these little things he says to me are more hurtful than ever. I can't call it abusive, but I feel battered. The counselor said I'm grieving the marriage I thought I was going to have and I have to accept what I do have. I don't want to!!! I WANT a celestial marriage. I WANT to be happy. I WANT to be best friends with my husband! He's apparently just as unhappy. He says he loves me when he goes to work. He asks me how my day went. He gives me a hug and kiss when he gets home. None of it has feeling to it anymore. He's just doing through the motions and I can tell. I'm praying like crazy for help. Sure wish I could see the plan... Is this a man/ woman difference thing? Is this just how a normal marriage goes? Do I just need to get thick skin and stop being so whiny? Thanks, Secretsister

I understand that. My hope is that a professional counselor could see him and discuss the real issues with him. Perhaps, in time, he would agree that he has a chemical imbalance and seek help for it. Coming from me, he will not hear it. Hemidakota, I can't thank you enough for the articles you just posted. I will read them all. Thank you, thank you! Secretsister

Yes, that or some other mood disorder. I only know this is not about normal marital disagreements. Today, we went for a walk before he went to work. He was kind, caring, concerned about my opinions, etc. He's a completely different person when he gets "moody." He even gets mean to the dog, which is one sign I see that warns me the blow up is coming.

Here's the update. He called me from work and asked me to have lunch with him and told me he was willing to go meet with our BP. We had lunch together and he acted completely normal. We spent well over an hour in the BP's office last night. It went well, but I know our BP saw the signs of his irrational logic. My husband and I talked for a couple of hours after leaving too. He is behaving like a normal person at this point. It's like he thinks he got help and it pulled him from the brink. I am relieved in the sense that this episode is over. He feels we have made progress and will be able to handle our disagreements better. I hope so, but I have little faith in it since I know he will continue to have the same problems. I meet with my counselor today and will continue to see him for support and guidance. My BP has told me I am welcome at his home any time day or night. I can even bring my dog. I have many friends who would welcome me, so a safe place to go, luckily, is not a problem. Our BP stressed to us that he is not a counselor and adviced us to see one together. He tried very hard to convince my husband that it is a good thing to see a marriage counselor. My husband does like him and respects him, so maybe over time he will be able to convince him. Thank you for your prayers and support. This forum has helped keep me sane through this crisis and probably saved my best friend a lot of whining. Secretsister

You are all right. I asked him to leave, explained I needed time away from him for a bit. He refused to leave. He told me I was going to call the police and get a judge's order to make him leave, "like I did before." I never did any such thing! Last night, he said he wanted to make up and try to work things out. We talked about the stupid belt loop thing and I apolagized for hurting his feelings. He seemed ok. This morning, he woke up angry again. He told our BP that he would agree to meet with him along with me, but that is not what he tells me, so I do not know if he will go with me tonight or not. This morning, he was upset with me because I didn't want to eat breakfast. I made him some and sat with him at the table. I told him my stomach was upset and I didn't dare eat. He made me get a bowl of cereal and sit there so I "looked the same as him." He also asked me if I put something in his juice. Then, I had to kiss him and hug him and wave to him as he pulled out of the driveway to work. He said he needs me to be consistent. Truly, he freaked me out. He's never acted so freaky. I know you will be telling me to get out. I have my appointment with a counselor tomorrow and I want to see if he comes with me to see the BP tonight. Then, I will have to decide. I think he's approaching a breakdown. I appreciate your prayers the most. I know prayer works, but I can't muster anything from Heaven at the moment. I still pray and trust God knows what he's doing.... wish he'd tell me. Secretsister

Over the weekend, I took in a pair of pants for him. I told him I didn't know how and had never done it before, but I would try. I think I did a really good job and they looked nice and fit him perfectly. He asked me how they looked and I told him they looked really good. He asked if the belt loops were all even. Knowing how particular he is, I admitted that one was slightly lower than the others, but "It looks fine, nobody would notice." With a snide tone, he said, "YOU don't notice anything." I got defensive and told him if he could find even one person who was bothered by his belt loop, I'd fix it for him. Of course, this ended in a huge fight, although we agreed to get away for a bit, then talk about it later. Later came and he refused to talk with me about it. The next morning, yesterday, he wanted to know if I was ready to make up. I told him I was, but he still acted angry. I told him I was sorry for hurting his feelings. He said he was sorry for hurting mine. I told him I forgave him, but he did not tell me the same and he refused a hug. He didn't talk to me at all yesterday. We got home from conference and he took off with his dog for awhile. Then, he came home and went up to bed and never spoke to me at all. This morning, I put my arm around him in bed, but got no response. I got up and made him breakfast as usual. When he sat down, I said "Good morning." He made kind of a growling sound. Then, he told me I need to get a job because he's leaving me. I asked him why and he said because I don't do my job right, "You can't even sew a belt loop right. Get a job." This is a man, who, one month ago, was telling our branch president how he'd never imagined loving anyone so much and how he is scared because he actually needs me. My BP is going to call him tonight and try to get him to meet with him. He suggested I pray about asking him to leave the home until we figure this out. I'm trying to have faith. I'm trying to understand how a loving Father gave me confirmation about marrying this man. At the time, I felt like it was a blessing for me for being faithful through some other really horrid trials in my life. Now, it feels like a mean joke. I want to tell everyone how much your input helps me. Needing strangers to support you seems pathetic, but right now, it is what I need and it is helping. Thank you for your support. Today is my Mom's birthday. I wish she were still here. Secretsister