AndrewCothran

I see what you are saying Pam but honestly its going a bit too far .. and as i said i don't give a monkeys anymore .. and i think the feeling is mutual so lets leave it there shall we ?. At least I will.

They are all sins of the flesh ..

Though i know this was not written to me i just want to put it out there .This is getting on my nerves ..why is it that we have to constantly justify every thing we post Its as if we have to scrutinize one anothers intentions its retarded and im done with it .. i make mistakes so does everyone else on this site but from now on ,, i dont give a monkeys ..and im not going to justify myself to anyone else . KUDOOS TO THE ABOVE RESPONSE . What happened is so sad it is unspeakably tragic ...and I think that TL agrees so there

LM I will state my views for each one that you put an asterik by with a number 1.That is anti christ pure and simple and does not belong anywhere in Christianity . 2 Those tactics are wrong and they are not following Christ when they engage in them 3. That thinking is so liberal and twisted i just laughed when i read though God forgive me because its not funny its sad . 4.This will seem contradictory but I don't know how to explain it except in contradictions The scripture says we all are children of God through faith in Jesus Christ .. But I also believe that we may be children of God in the sense that we are created by God So those who believe both I dont have a conflict with in that sense . But for me the jury is still out on the later but God has already ruled on the former ..And Christians are children of God by the new birth . I do not believe that God predestines anyone to damnation ..I struggle with Free Will in regards to spiritual matters ..I believe there are many devout Christians in various denominations even though they may be wrong about certain doctrines .. No none of us get to deny Christianity to anyone however there are certain markers that are very obvious . For example if you combine wicca with Christianity you are obviously not a Christian .. As for our fellow man I don't think either one us are setting ourselves up as judges . Now to your question about Joseph Smith and God and Christ .. No I don't believe that .God is one .If you are in the presence of Christ you are in the presence of the Father and the Holy Spirit ..There is one God in three divine persons ..One does not exist with out the other ..I understand that you do not believe that .. As for the vision Joseph Smith made how many accounts was it ? Was it four or seven ? Now that being said and I want you to understand this ..That does not mean I do not believe that God the father and Jesus Christ could have appeared to Joseph Smith in a vision .. I do not believe the account that he gave of his vision .. Or at least the account that is taken as truth by the LDS. Keep in mind you are asking a protestant these questions and you will get protestant answers . Do I believe that all members of the LDS worship a false Christ ..I could not say ..To say that would be to assume to know the heart of each and every one and i don't even know my own heart .. so no i could not answer that ..

Sure ..i didn't see this post it was numbered in the second part of this thread ,,And i understand i accept your apology and we are cool ....After seeing this post i edited my last post which was based on previous posts so if you get the original i apologize if i was offensive to you in fact i apologize for being offensive to you on a personal level period w I will try to answer that question as best i can ... I see what you are saying ..Does the bible state that you must understand every detail about Jesus in order to be right with God no ..A good example of this is a child .many children believe in and trust Jesus but don't understand every thing the scripture teaches about Jesus ..The reason i asked the question was in part to understand what the LDS teaches about Christ ...And does that matter as an investigator it would because you see i have been presented with more than one view ,,i mean thats why i am on and lds site asking questions of lds members lol ...So in the whole scheme of things to follow Christ no you dont have to understand it all .. But you want to be certain you are following Christ .. and that is of the upmost importance ..right?

It matters because it matters to me what you believe about Jesus ,,I have been told you believe in a different Jesus ..I have also been told that that was false .If i am trying to understand what you believe about Jesus and you claim to love him to serve him to belong to his original church would you not want me to have a clear understanding rather than believe you worship an idol rather than the real and only Christ ? Secondly any question i have about the teachings of the LDS matter . Actually lds authorities encourage these types of questions you seem to be offended by them hostile even . You could at least try to be a little more civil ..Finally on this point any honest question that is not inappropriate is my right as a human being to ask ,,Its also my obligation as a human being to ask .. Regarding salvation ,,I have to understand first what you mean by salvation in Christ Jesus .Different faith traditions have different beliefs about what that means . Are you asking what i believe it means ? If you mean salvation in every possible way i can answer that if you would like ..According to the Bible we are justified by faith for the sake of Christ alone and regenerated by the Holy Spirit .. Do i believe that one must GET IT ALL RIGHT so to speak no of course not that would mean man is in control of his salvation and not God ..But let me point out there is a difference from knowing the truth and denying it and getting all the facts straight . But does God save people in spite of their bad theology yes i believe so .. While writing this i did not see your other post ..i accept your apology and i am more than happy to be friendly with you and i can understand the attacks and how that conditions ones reaction ...

I suppose that would depend on whose judgment you ascribe to ..our own is so feeble and corrupt ..and yes i am talking about yours and mine and that of the whole human race ,, Jesus actually said that Wisdom is vindicated by her children ..His judgment is always supreme ..that i think we can agree on ...:)

..I am here to ask questions and recieve answers from an LDS perspective and try to understand what you believe ..In order to do that i must express my own beliefs .You need to understand where I am coming from as I need to understand where you are coming from .This way you can provide me with an answer perhaps that i can understand . I am not trying to teach or preach to you if you think that you are mistaken .This is not a contest we are not at war with each each other . In all fairness for the sake of discussion . I will answer your questions according to what knowledge i have ...if you treat me with the respect i deserve otherwise I will not .. Go ahead and ask and i will try to my best to answer ..

Wisdom is vindicated by her children .

Let him do what he wishes I am not sparring with him . But your point is taken about private contact My point is that if one has a personal problem with me especially if they are to levy accusations then it would be best to talk to me privately otherwise they are the one playing the fool.. As for assumptions they usually cause more harm than good ..but leaving that aside thank you again for your suggestion on the reading material ..

The LDS teaches that contention is of the devil ..It takes two to engage in contention .. You will find that I will not engage with you . May I remind you that this forum is about asking and discussing what the LDS believes which is what I am trying to understand ..If you have questions of a personal nature you may email me at [email protected] That is all ...

No I don,t believe that he always existed with a physical body nor as a full grown man ..No And I guess this is where it gets confusing when one speaks of Jesus in his incarnation as whom we know as the fully God fully man known as Jesus Christ and then previously asGod the Son ..I will correct myself I should have made that clear .. In all actuality it is an extremely difficult subject to tackle ..Also I realize that we are dealing with two completely different theological landscapes ..Your suggestion for the reading material is one i will explore and is appreciated ,,My only objection to what you wrote is the audacity to tell someone else what they believe and dont believe which I realize was not well thought out on your part ..but leaving that aside the suggestion is appreciated . :)

I follow what you are saying but it brings up another question ..Is it the teaching of the LDS that we in some form or other always existed ? Would that not imply that we in essence had no begining and are therefore not created beings ? By creation I mean creation out of nothing . I know i am probing deeply but I have been encouraged by LDS members to do so .

So you are telling me ..A person whom you do not know from Adams off ox that I do not believe the list of things that I am stating ..Hmmm I have been on some pretty powerful drugs but never one that convinced me that I could look into the heart and mind of another man especially one I don't know anything about ..This is wonderfull thank you ..

Do you believe that Jesus Christ though being the only begotten Son of God is God himself that he always existed and is not a created being as we are ?