dalepres

The tabletop sealer and bags are from SorbentSystems.com. But don't buy anything from them. I don't want them to be out of stock when I order again.

I posted this on another forum. I thought it might be of interest here, as well: Here are some samples of the vacuum packed Mylar bags I have been doing: First, vacuum packed spaghetti in 3.5 mil bags. These aren't good for really long-term storage but will extend the 2 year shelf life to 5+ years. We had to form boots from scrap bag material to go over the ends of the spaghetti to keep from poking holes in the bag. You can see the outline of the boots. (Had to drop this image to fit the 8 image max - but it's the same as the first post in this thread anyway.) Spaghetti in 7 mil bags. These bags are thick! No worry about poking through at all. Because of the weight of the material, they don't suck up like the thinner bags but they are very well vacuumed as well. All also have 100cc of oxygen absorbers. This spaghetti should be as good in 30 years as it was the day we packed it. Here's some playing cards we sealed. We also have coloring/activity books and crayons. You gotta have fun, after all. We used oxygen absorbers and desiccants on opposite sides of the package. This one is egg noodles. This we didn't vacuum. Instead it is just sealed with the impulse sealer but includes 200cc of oxygen absorbers. This creates a 22% vacuum in the bag by eliminating the oxygen without crushing the contents. Rice packed in a 4.5 mil bag. These are medium weight but still very strong. By flattening the rice with my palm before packing the packs are flat and stack well. We also added 100cc of oxygen absorber. These packs are as hard as bricks - as long as the vacuum holds up. Elbow macaroni. See how tightly it is packed? You can see the outline of the noodles. Because of the dead space in macaroni compared to spaghetti, we added 200cc of oxygen absorbers. These packages are rock hard and very light. We've used 5 year old vacuum packed macaroni. It was as good as new. Dried vegetables. We bought frozen vegetables at the grocery store and dried them. Much cheaper than buying canned dehydrated. There's probably 4 lbs of frozen vegetables in this bag which, as you can tell in the pictures, contains much less volume than 4 cups of rice. Our three vacuum machines. In front is the Seal-A-Meal. In back is the retracting nozzle vacuum sealer that works for Mylar and other non-channel bags. On the right is the Reynolds battery powered unit. This is the best 100 dollars we have spent for doing vacuum packing. How many times do you want to shape a bag to make it smaller or to use rolls for the Seal-a-Meal? Since those sealer strips get so hot, you have to wait 30 seconds between seals and then after 10 or so you have to wait 10 minutes or more. Otherwise you burn up the sealer or at least burn up your bags. This unit is an impulse sealer. It gets hot instantly and cools off virtually just as fast. You can make or form bags as fast as you can feed them and do it all day long. That leaves the precious duty-cycle limited vacuum sealers to do what they do best: vacuum seal, without slowing them down by using them for non-vacuum tasks.

I suggest avoiding the food storage kits. Why let someone else plan your storage for you? What if you don't like the food? You'll have much more enjoyment and satisfaction by buying your storage yourself and you'll get things you like. The time spent with your husband and your girls in preparation will always be remembered as the best times of your lives - whether or not you ever need to live off of your storage. Besides, I think having the UPS truck stop by and suddenly you are all done with buying your storage just sounds so boring and anti-climatic. Take that bonus and spend just as much money buying things you want. I know you can feed a family of 4 (assuming 2 girls since you didn't say) for less than 2000 a year. You're a mother. You're an expert in this; you just don't know it yet.

Just keep in mind, when you rack your shotgun, you give away your location and the last thing you hear in this life may be the sound of your own shotgun chambering a round. Keep your shotgun loaded and let the last sound the bad guy hears be a loud bang.

What if it's not the end of the world and there's just a hurricane or tornadoes or an earthquake? Maybe your bishop won't need your food storage and your ward or stake leaders won't be calling you up for the defense of Zion. Maybe you just need to defend your family and their survival resources for a few days.

I think America's deer and elk populations will last about a month should government fail and society implode. But some fire-roasted pitt bull sounds mighty tasty.

Sort of sums it all up nicely, Loudmouth_Mormon.

Interesting stuff so far and thanks to all for the information. This makes me think of the vacuum packing in Mylar bags that I like. One of the reasons for using the Mylar bags is that Mylar is a much better oxygen barrier than other plastics - even than the heavy plastic buckets we so often store our bulk grains in. I'll bet the plastic containers honey comes in aren't very good oxygen barriers. Now I wonder if I should vacuum pack the honey jars. My wife is getting worried I am going to vacuum pack her in Mylar should she pass before I do. Sort of like the jokes of Roy Rogers having Dale Evans stuffed.

One of the basic concepts of food storage is that, generally, storage in the opaque containers is better than allowing light into your stored food. I especially see this recommendation when it comes to storing honey but most of the honey I see for sale is in either quart jars or clear plastic containers. So is storing in a room with the lights off enough? Near dark versus completely dark? Would it be beneficial or enough to wrap jars in tin foil? If you nearly cover a container in tin foil does it help or is the benefit completely circumvented by having a small portion near the lid uncovered? Dale

Yes, but my reference to school shootings in the UK was in response to this statement from a citizen..., er... subject of the UK:

Oh, I forgot. I also know how to eat.

I've raised and butchered animals, we've canned foods. I hunted deer in Wyoming that was really more like harvesting than hunting. In 3 years of heavy fishing, I caught one bass. Now I buy my fish in a 6 1/2 oz can. I was a scouter for many years. I used to be good at starting fires and outdoor skills. I hope it all comes back to me when I need it. Oh, and did I mention, I know a lot about electronics and computers. When it comes to other skills that may add value to a communal system, I may be in trouble - but I learn fast.

And there were no rifle or shotguns destroyed? And no owners lost the ability to have them? What is a valid reason to own a gun in the UK? Self-defense, as I interpreted the second video, does not appear to be one of them? Can you own a gun for the purpose of self defense?

Let me just add that my posts are not intended to be UK bashing or anti-UK at all. I think that most Americans have a great affection for the UK. We have a common language, a common history, and our roots are in the UK. You have been our ally and we have been yours in two world wars. Many Americans, myself included, are very concerned about gun control in the UK, though, because what happens in the UK eventually happens here. Just as the Magna Carta preceded our own Constitution, many of the great things in our nation have roots in the UK. Our futures are inseparable. So we are justifiably concerned about gun control in the UK and what it means to the United States in the future. We are not against you; we're for you. We in America want all good things for the United Kingdom.

Ok, perhaps my geography knowledge is lacking. Isn't Scotland part of the UK? I know when I drove from London to Edzell Scotland, I did not go through any checkpoints or customs checks. Again, I only know what I read. Is this wrong? From http://www.davekopel.org/2a/Foreign/The-Gold-Standard-of-Gun-Control.htm: This website lists two shootings at UK schools, another attack with a machete, a stabbing, and a flamethrower attack. List of school-related attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Clearly teen on teen violence, at school and away from school, is a big problem even in the UK: gang stabbing UK - Google Search While the first link above and the videos I posted previously indicate that gun violence in the UK is actually up 40% since the handgun ban, that last link shows that even without guns, criminals are criminals. Sociopaths simply change weapons. UK has had to, of all crazy things, ban machetes, ban Samurai swords (as if the type of sword makes a sword more or less a weapon), ban pocket knives, and soon you'll be tearing your meat apart in your kitchen with your hands and teeth like a caveman because they will have to ban kitchen knives. Eventually, they will have to ban tools altogether and you can live like cavemen because any and nearly every tool made since cavemen can be and has been used as a weapon. Outlawing every offensive weapon only ensures that only the outlaws have weapons. Oh, and the government. They, of course, are more worth defending than either you or me.

I don't live in the UK so I can only go by what I here on these Internets. Of course we all know how reliable that is, huh? So, this story is not accurate? or this one?

I agree with you whole-heartedly, Charley. The days when children could play anywhere in their neighborhood are gone. The age of naivety is past. Please keep in mind that those days that you are remembering were when, both in the US and in the UK, the population was generally armed. As soon as laws changed to protect the criminal, release them from jails, disarm the populace so that criminals know you are defenseless, then the roving gangs have started to rule the cities. They have no fear of their neighbors or victims. Guns helped to ensure the equality of the masses - whether they be citizens or subjects - and led to a polite society. An unarmed society is a fearful society ruled by the ruthless, meanest, biggest, and strongest. What you never see in the news are the hundreds of thousands of times every year that a gun saves a life or prevents a rape or prevents a robbery. You only see the much lesser number of occasions where a criminal uses a gun for violence that he would have committed by another means had he not had a gun anyway. Relating all of this to preparedness and to the original post, keep in mind that in the hour of need it is too late to prepare. I hope I never have to go on a diet of wheat, rice, and beans. I hope I never have to use a gun for self-defense - against man or beast. But I am prepared. By having prepared to defend my family, I can always make the choice you are suggesting to not defend my family or to defend my family. If you are unprepared then when that true moment of decision comes, you have no choice to make. You are defenseless. I assume your presence on this forum means you are interested in and are preparing for something (the title of the forum doesn't imply simply food storage). I suggest, if you have the means and can legally do so wherever it is that you live, that you prepare to defend your family so that you can actually make a choice one way or the other when the time comes that you really have to decide.

Actually, a gun is not the ultimate power giver, it's the ultimate equalizer. If a bad guy has a gun and you have a gun, there is no ultimate power. If only the bad guy has the gun then, yes, he has ultimate power over you.

I agree about the CW and antenna building. Those, along with QRP operations, have always been my favorite parts of the hobby. There are a lot of disaster situations I can imagine where CW will become important again. It's a good skill to have. But I always liked building my own rigs. But I also, because of my military and professional training, was able to design and build my own from scratch including processor controlled synthesized rigs. Since I got into computers, just like that End-of-Heathkit article described, I just haven't done much electronics. Sad, huh? Emergency operations have always been a great benefit from the ham community. On the other hand, I do get tired of seeing ham clubs doing parking control for every commercial or community event that comes up. Many repeaters become unavailable on weekends and parking control is not the same thing as emergency operations. That one always bothers me. I remember the day that when someone cursed or otherwise showed bad manners on the ham bands they didn't stick around long. No one would talk to them. There were no flame wars, there was simply a few polite warnings and shunning. It was just not an issue. Then came the CB craze after the movie Convoy. Of course I also remember when you had to specify a "business purpose" to get a CB license. Yes, for the others because you know this, it used to be required to have a license for a CB radio. Just shows what too much deregulation in government leads to. As for your father, why not make him legal? He might enjoy it a lot more. I remember when I was in the service, living in base housing, I had a small 2-meter vertical antenna on my house. Two houses down was a CBer with a 11-meter beam (for the non-technical: my antenna was very small, his was very large) and he had an illegal KW linear amp. Every time he'd key up, all the TV's in the neighborhood would mess up. In fact, my wife had this very expensive Singer sewing machine that was microprocessor controlled with 100+ built-in stitches - something rare and expensive in 1978. If she was sewing when he keyed his mike, her sewing machine would change stitches. Yet every time someone's TV got interference, they came to my house; even the base police came to my house. After all, I was the ham, he was just a CBer; it had to be my fault. A nail through the coax finally put an end to it. Funny thing, the guy thought he and I should be great friends because we were both into radio.

I'd start with ARRLWeb: ARRL Home Page. Clip the clubs link and search for a local club. You'll find a lot of folks who will show you the ropes. There may be study groups and licensing help in a local club as well.

Ok, wy0mn. Before this gets closed because we've gone really far off topic: now I am really waxing nostalgic. I just did some searching for used Heathkit gear - of course I would love to have found some new, unbuilt kits that someone's grandfather had stashed away. There doesn't seem to be any of it on the market. It's all gobbled up and considered collectible. Of course you may have known that, but it was interesting to me. I did at least find some pictures of some running Heathkit gear with the covers off and the warm toasty glow of a bunch of 12AT7s. (hey... I surprised myself. Pulled that number from deep cranial storage :)) Now this will really tug at your heart strings. It's a link to the NYTimes article when Heathkit quit making kits. Plug Is Pulled on Heathkits, Ending a Do-It-Yourself Era - New York Times

Wow. I'll bet that YL was sure excited to get a call with YL. But I would have never suspected you of being a YL; your mustache is thicker than that of most women I know. LOL Edit: Oh, and I forgot to agree about wishing they'd left it like it was way back when. I'm sure it would be much to BenRaines dismay *grin* as he studies for his license, but it was a lot more fun when people who were involved worked harder to get it and had a better technical understanding of what they were doing instead of being appliance operators... and I had to buy crystals at 10 bucks a piece for every frequency I wanted to talk on... Ok, I don't miss crystals but I really, really miss Heathkit!

+1. I figure my food supply is probably good for about a month or two. I have enough stored for my kids, my wife, and myself. Problem is, my kids are married and don't have storage. So if we tell my daughter to come to our house, we have food, she isn't going to come without her kids and her husband. Her husband isn't going to come to our house to eat while his brother and sister or his parent starve so they have to be welcomed as well. If his parents come, they're certainly going to insist that their parents and siblings have food to eat or they won't eat... and the list goes on. Add to that any neighbor who comes with an empty bowl. Those that come with weapons won't get the same treatment but I wouldn't turn away a starving neighbor or friend. So, I figure no matter how much food I store, it will last as long as it takes to get it passed out to others. Or maybe the world won't come to an end and I'll lose my job and it will feed my wife and I through a year or two of hard times... *shrug*.. who knows.

I got KK6TF when I got my advanced class license many years ago. I was in California then. At the time, you could apply for a 2x2 license as an advanced but you had no idea what the FCC might come up with. Getting to ask for the 2x2 was as close as there was to a vanity call sign at the time. I wondered if that was your call; I just couldn't figure out how you got a 0 in Wyoming. It used to be that you could get a relative idea of how long a guy (or gal :)) was licensed by their call sign. Not any more, though.

Well, no one is getting killed with guns in the UK now, are they? Oh, wait... That didn't work out like it was supposed to, did it? Now the only sure thing is that the victim won't have a gun. It didn't change much for the gun totin' criminal, did it? I mean no disrespect to your uncle but your uncle was wrong. Though citizens don't own guns in the UK, criminals are killing them anyway. By way of edit and to tie my post to the poll and topic at hand, let me just say that yes, we are prepared to defend ourselves; not because our TV set is worth a human life but because bad guys often kill even submissive victims.