Cydonia

It says flesh of beasts, not meat. That doesn't require a definition. You haven't even re-read the Word of Wisdom, or this thread (since we already discussed that). And yet you're commenting with a spirit of contention and making up arguments. Why?

Why is there an argument? Why is so much of this thread being held in the spirit of contention? Why did D&C 89's statement to eat meat sparingly get ignored when other statements were magnified to cover what they originally didn't?

What?

So you choose not to follow the Word of Wisdom because you love those things of this world and following the word of wisdom "perfectly" is not a priority? I fear that could be a common answer.

Why would I need to have this discussion during a temple recommend interview? I don't drink beer. I'm trying to not ignore the words of the Prophet. The word of God (D&C 89) says beer is OK and meat should be eaten sparingly. But we don't follow that. Later prophets have said varying things about meat and "liquor" or "drink", but none have presented those statements as revelations. And liquor/hard drinks are different than beer. So why do we have meat at every ward meal when meat is to be eaten sparingly? Why is drinking one beer in a two year time period worse than having meat for every meal all 730 days in those two years? That's not what the D&C says. I want to follow what God says. Why don't most others?

Just to follow that up. Just looked up liquor. It says "distilled spirits." As MarginofError pointed out "Beer is not a distilled spirit."

Pam. I was at a Catholic wedding once and went up to the bar (this was before I was LDS). I said, "I need some liquor." The bartender (honest to God) replied "We don't have any liquor." I pointed to the beer and corrected myself, "I'll have a beer." (That is a really, honestly, true story.) I feel like most everyone else is picking and choosing answers instead of what D&C 89 says.

Excellent. You're both ahead of the curve. But what about at every ward meal then, as said later in that post. That is not "sparingly" by any common sense definition. Any more than having ice cream (whether one scoop or two) at every ward is sparingly if the Prophet said "Eat ice cream sparingly."

That's interesting, but doesn't mention beer or that eating meat should be done regularly. I disagree that sparingly needs to be defined because the standard now is to have meat with every meal. That's not sparingly. If I said, "Eat ice cream sparingly" and you had a bowl with every meal, that's not sparingly. So eating meat sparingly, using the common sense rule, would mean the same thing as eating ice cream sparingly. Now if we weren't doing it for every meal, or even 2 meals a day, then sparingly might get a little more open for question. Is eating it once a day sparingly? Maybe. But certainly if the Prophet says "Eat ice cream sparingly" and yet wards never serve a meal without ice cream, then there's a discrepancy there.

Thank you, Vort. Your feeling that I am going to "hell" though I break no church rules or requirements and simply am asking a question is noted.

Pam, read the whole post that I quoted and it should clear up your confusion. Misshalfway, Hinckley said that we should not have caffeine, but we still go with the coffee and tea understanding. This is done because Hinckley's statement was not "revelation" (at least that is the answer I've always heard). So the statement of prophets regarding things is not considered revelation unless given as revelation. No further revelation seems to have been made to supersede the D&C 89 revelation. So why do we not follow it?

What are you talking about? The D&C doesn't say meat. It says flesh of beasts. In regards to "splitting hairs," I feel I'm doing just the opposite. The common mild barley beverage drunk in the midwest at the time of the D&C 89 revelation was beer. So we can discuss Japanese teas made of barley all we want. But Brigham Young knew "hot drinks" meant coffee and tea because that was common sense. That's what they had to drink that was hot. Hot drinks doesn't include hot chocolate because that was not a common commodity amongst the saints at the revelation of "WoW." So to say meat good, bear bad, is to construct a "split hair" argument built around the meaning of "sparingly" and that some cultures far removed from our own use barley to make tea. But if you take the very clear statements at face value, as Brigham Young perscribed, then they say beer's OK and meat should only be used in times of famine and cold. So why do we not take D&C 89 at face value?

Sacrament I'm not as concerned about because the D&C only says that we can use wine, it doesn't say we have to. Nor does the current church say we "can't" necessarily. It's just that we don't. The reason I'm willing to accept hot drinks as coffee and tea is the same as the reason that mild beverage made from barley means beer. (See earlier in the thread.) D&C 89 says it's not a commandment. The church does not say it is a commandment. They only make it a requirement to be baptized, hold a leadership position, enter the temple, etc. When did the church say it was a commandment? Where I'm coming from: It doesn't sit well with me that God said one thing, we do another, and then we say we "Just do it because God said so." No, what God said so, we are not doing. Why?

Me, too. And what God said is beer is OK and meat should be eaten sparingly. I'm following the meat being eaten sparingly part. And I don't drink beer whether it's OK or not. So I'm covered. But a lot of people aren't following D&C 89. Why?

It doesn't seem like I'm trying to justify anything, because I don't drink beer and I do eat meat sparingly. What I am trying to reconcile is that what the D&C says does not follow with what we practice. Nor does there seem to be any other clear cut statement from God saying that we should do something other than what is in D&C 89. PS. We don't believe in hell.

Yes it does. Read the whole thread.

Why does everyone keep talking about "never eating meat." When did I mention that? However, church functions in the summer here have offered three meat sandwiches and hot dogs. Clearly that's against what is written, but no one follows it. Why? Everyone avoids beer, but the D&C says beer is OK. Sure prophets have mentioned it, but Hinckley had that mention of caffeine on Larry King, and the consensus seems to be that Hinckley's statement "wasn't revelation so soda is still OK." Why is the Hinkley issue different than the beer issue? Why is meat routinely served in the summer for church events? Meaning via revelation.

Cydonia, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.I'm asking what I'm asking. All I see above are interpretations. But no actual revelations (as in, someone asked God and he said xyz) beyond what is in the D&C. The D&C says beer is OK and that meat is to be eaten sparingly. We don't do that. That doesn't seem right. If I want to go to the Celestial Kingdom, I want to do what God says. So I don't drink beer and I eat meat sparingly. Then I'm covered. But having what seems like it might be hearsay float around as doctrine makes me nervous. The D&C is as clear and easy to read now as it ever was. Eat meat sparingly is not a confusing or archaic statement. That beer is the only "commonly used" mild barley beverage seems pretty clear--just as hot drinks means coffee and tea. But we add interpretation and hearsay on, and then make that doctrine. That's a spiritual dilemma for me. And believe me, I pray about it.

Um...I wasn't talking to you there, Ryanh. Read the post directly above my last one. Skippy740, I'd love to follow the words of a living prophet (or even a more recent one). Has one offered revelation on the Word of Wisdom? Could someone point to that revelation? The last revelation I have is from the D&C. Brigham Young added his own interpretation that hot drinks are coffee and tea based on the drinks in common use, so I'm happy to accept that. But I can't find anything specifying when a prophet had it revealed to him that meat should not be eaten sparingly or that beer was bad. I'm legitimately asking where these notions came from and whether they're just hearsay that became doctrine or if there's a real revelation behind them.

No it doesn't. As to continuing revelation--When was further revelation given? As far as I can find no further revelations have been provided for the Word of Wisdom after it was given to Joseph Smith Jr. Could you point me to where a prophet added further or new revelation to it?

There are a few other barley drinks out there, but none that were popular in the US in that time. Brigham Young said that he understood "hot drinks" to mean coffee and tea because “I have heard it argued that tea and coffee are not mentioned therein; that is very true; but what were the people in the habit of taking as hot drinks when that revelation was given? Tea and coffee. We were not in the habit of drinking water very hot, but tea and coffee 'the beverages in common use'." The mild barley beverage in common use was beer. So that settles that. But the more important issue is not about beer. The more important issue is that the D&C says eat only a small amount of meat except in the winter or famine, and yet three meat sandwiches and hot dogs are common summer fair in the church. As Seminarysnoozer said "But often times I try to follow the commandments without understanding the purpose or reasoning behind them." If I were to do that, I'd eat meat sparingly (meaning infrequently) and I would not worry about drinking a mild beverage made from barley, which following the "beverages in common use" guideline, would be beer. So why do we interpret and not follow the guideline as written?

My whole family are vegetarians, too, rampion. So you hit right at the heart of why I'm asking. I've found it very frustrating that what is said in section 89 of the D&C is not what is said in the Word of Wisdom pamphlet and certainly isn't what's followed. And I'm wondering why. If meat is OK during the dead of summer when they're are plenty of other food options available at the local grocery store, then why does the WoW say otherwise? Conversely the WoW says mild barley beverages are OK, but we can't have those. Why doesn't the WoW pamphlet match what's in the D&C?

I'm sorry for your loss, but that's an argument of semantics. It doesn't in any way address my question.

So the Word of Wisdom says: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." In other words: "Meat's OK if it's cold and/or you don't have much else to eat." And the Word of Wisdom says: "...and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain." In other words: "Barley's good to feed working animals and to make beer with." But if I have a beer I'm in deep trouble. However, I've seen three meat sandwiches and hotdogs served at summer functions in the chapel. So why does the WoW say beer good, meat bad (OK, that's an oversimplification) and yet we do the opposite?

Hey All, My wife and I have announced our intention to get baptised, and the Missionaries are helping us set it up. Thanks for helping answer my questions along the way.