solomon-helaman

What is real? Even scientific evidence of things change.

http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/19556-widtsoe-magnetic-forces.html Here is an interesting thread talking about some of the science of magnetic forces. Some of it is a little iffy, but an interesting thread to say the least.

What is your definition of rich? The brothern have asked us to live within our means. The church lives within it's means. They are building on average a church building a day. Temples are being announced at an amazing rate. It is my understanding (Could be wrong) that the church has a surplus of budget for it's buildings so that it can continue to build at the pace it does for five years if were not to add any money to it. I know that not all church building come at the same price but our building here in Gilbert, AZ cost about 5 million dollars (Once again second hand knowledge) They will also be building a temple here soon that has a budget for 60 million dollars. You do the math. The church is rich, but it lives within it's means. Elder Christofferson said it that article you posted that we are to live within our means and help others around us. I go back to my pie analogy. When four people are wanting a piece of pie we should give each an equal portion, which would be a quarter each. So, how do we get more? The principle of creation. Create a bigger pie. We get more, and so do others around us. So, yes to the previous poster that says it matters how we earn our money. We should create our wealth in a way that will bless the lives of those around us. Sorry, but I don't totally agree that man created money. God created ALL things on this earth. Man has taken this creation and used it for evil, but it is still a creation of God.

I don't understand why you want the scientific evidence. Most of it is biased anyway. On the other hand is there any scientific evidence saying that giving glory to God has nothing to do with the blessings we recieve?

It is the same idea as wanting to keep dating that high school girl friend. God often times may have something better in mind for you. We need to give God glory if we succeed and give Him glory if we fail. If we do that then He WILL bless us. It may not be the exact job we are envisioning, but it will be the righteous lifestyle we envisioned. As we pray we should envision what God wants us to envision. That is why prayer is such an important part of the scientific equation. So I agree that people can't just ask for a job and get it, but they can ask for the best.

If you are really woried you can always not go swimming like the missionaries.

I was actually studying this topic a while back while studying the topic of avoiding deception. The topic of bikinis seemed to be a great example of others trying to decieve us. There is a part of the church that say that wearing bikinis are ok, and another part that say it is an abomination. Here is a quote from President Benson about deception and what we should do when we have so many different answers. “May I suggest three short tests to avoid being deceived. . . . “1. What do the standard works have to say about it? . . . “2. The second guide is: what do the latter-day Presidents of the Church have to say on the subject—particularly the living President? . . . “3. The third and final test is the Holy Ghost. . . . This test can only be fully effective if one’s channels of communication with God are clean and virtuous and uncluttered with sin.” Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, Oct 1963, 16-17 So, I went to the scriptures with the question about bikinis. As you might guess there is not much on the topic of bikinis, but I did find a few things on apparal. D&C 42:40 D&C 133:5 Alma 1:27 Alma 4:6 1 Timothy 2:9-10 1 Corinthians 7:31 Now the For Strength of Youth is also considered scripture, because it comes from our inspired prophets. Here is what the old version and the new version have to say about the topic. OLD: “If you wear an immodest bathing suit because it's "the style," it sends a message that you are using your body to get attention and approval, and that modesty is not important. Immodest clothing includes short shorts, tight pants, and other revealing attire. Young women should refrain from wearing off-the-shoulder, low-cut, or revealing clothes.” NEW: “Immodest clothing includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and other revealing attire. Young women should wear clothing that covers the shoulder and avoid clothing that is low-cut in the front or the back or revealing in any other manner … You can ask yourself, “Would I feel comfortable with my appearance if I were in the Lord’s presence?” The second step to avoiding deception is listening to what the modern prophets have to say. Here are a few quotes that I have found in my research, one was mentioned in an earlier post. Brigham Young – “I am ashamed to see the tight clothes, to see the shape of the ladies.” Joseph F. Smith – “Are you—a woman—willing to go before your Maker and be judged in the clothes you have on? David O. McKay – “Any bathing suit which immodestly exposes the body, such as bikinis or those with bare midriffs, etc., should not be worn. Swim suits are fashioned for a particular purpose and should not be worn as casual dress for summer, but should be worn only for swimming. While traveling to and from the beach or swimming pools, young men and women should be fully dressed, or at least their swimming suits should be covered with outer clothing.” Taken from a New Era article titled, “Fads and Faith,” New Era, Oct. 1971, 15 My students always say, well those were quotes from a long time ago. Here is a more modern quote from Elder Holland. “The For the Strength of Youth pamphlet is very clear in its call for young women to avoid clothing that is too tight, too short, or improperly revealing in any manner, including bare midriffs.” Jeffery R. Holland, “To Young Women,” Ensign, Oct. 2005 The third step is very important and a lot easier if you have done the first two. That is to listen to the Holy Ghost. I like this quote from the First Presidency in 1971. “You don’t need to be told how many inches or what kind of swimming suit. You aren’t a good servant if you must be commanded in all these things.” Taken from a New Era article titled, “Fads and Faith,” New Era, Oct. 1971, 15 So, there is no clear answer, but that is so we can use our agency righteously. I think the best answer came from : I personaly would not want my daughter to dress in a bikini or a tanki. Those both really are not designed for swimming, but rather showing off their body, but that is for you to judge and not others. Follow the Spirit and He will let you know what you should do.

In countries that don't allow divorce or make it difficult we see many men just going out and finding mistresses. It happened to my mother-in-law, bless her heart. I think an earlier post put it well, by saying women need to teach their young boys to respect women.

You are right pastor, but think of it like a pie. You have four people wanting a piece of the pie. God teaches that we should get an equal share of the pie. This is where God wants us to create a bigger pie, so that we can all have bigger pieces. Creation is such an important process in this life. We need to be creating. Start out small, and the more you create the more you can enjoy, and the more that those around you can enjoy. God has given us an abundant earth. We need to create with that abundance. You can read my earlier thread where I quoted Brigham Young explaining that Christ does not mean that we should not be rich, but that if you are rich and serve God you are his people. You can be rich and not serve mammon. We should not try to create wealth, but create what God would have us create. Use His Spirit to enlighten our minds and create abundance for ourselves and others, but always giving gratitude to Christ and His grace.

My personal belief is that if you are not sitting idle and waiting for an "entitled" handout you are rich. It is a mindset. Blessings come by good works, good works come through faith, and faith comes because of the grace of God's infinate atonement. (Eph. 2:8-10) If we lack faith and don't do good works than we fall from God's grace, and lack in the eternal blessings of heaven. Being rich financially is a tool to doing God's work, but if we are not able to create an abundance we are the unprofitable servant. (Matt. 25) Like I said this is my personal belief. I would not judge wheather a person is poor or not, that is for God to judge thankfully. But, as for myself this is my measuring stick. "Am I creating an abundance?"

I am sorry for only using Brigham Young quotes, but they are so good. I will start looking for some other prophet's quotes, but President Young understood the need for God's people to be rich. President Young knew what zion was exactly like and he was trying to help the saints understand too. Necessity of Paying Due Attention to Temporal Duties. Remarks by President Brigham Young, made in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, January 26, 1862. "This people, in their notions concerning life, are similar to the whole world. We have brought our traditions from the world, but we wish to learn better, and get rid of every false notion and practice. As I told you the other day, it is impossible to believe a truth that is not embraced in “Mormonism,” whether it is found in the mental education or physical pursuits of mortals, in the spiritual refinement of the Gods, or in culling immortal fruits from trees that grow in the Elysian fields of Paradise. “The life that now is” more immediately demands our attention, and I am fearful that many spend their lives for naught. There are persons in this community who, if they could have their own will gratified and be possessed of plenty of means, would not do another day's work in their lives, unless they were urged to it. Such persons are told that they should devote their lifetime they now have to usefulness; but they have sufficient, they say, and have no need to be useful in performing any kind of labor. This is a mistake. Though I possessed millions of money and property, that does not excuse me from performing the labor that it is my calling to perform, so far as I have strength and ability, any more than the poorest man in the community is excused. The more we are blessed with means, the more we are blessed with responsibility; the more we are blessed with wisdom and ability, the more we are placed under the necessity of using that wisdom and ability in the spread of righteousness, the subjugation of sin and misery, and the amelioration of the condition of mankind. The man that has only one talent and the man that has five talents have responsibility accordingly. If we have a world of means, we have a world of responsibility. If we have an eternity of knowledge, we shall have an eternity of business to transact and to occupy every particle of the knowledge bestowed upon us. "Then, instead of searching after what the Lord is going to do for us, let us inquire what we can do for ourselves, and the answer will be, We can make our own hats, bonnets, shoes, and clothing, and we can make our own heaven here below; and if there is anything that we cannot make now, we will wear what we have until we can make more." This quote talks about how this world was created with the purpose of gaining an abundance. We should always be working on gaining more. I love President Young.

Being rich is not Babylon, and being poor is not Zion. (Moses 7:18) Being poor does not make you bad, but if you want to live a Celestial life you need to become rich, because there will be no poor living in mansions in heaven. Wattles book is a worldly perspective of how to get rich, but has many true priciples that we can learn from. It is by the laws of God that we become a zionistic society. Zion is not necessarily a place, but rather a state of mind, much like the Spirit World is. We need to change our state of mind to be as Moses said, "of one heart and one mind, and dwelt and righteousness, and there was no poor among them. I think it is very easy to connect Zion with being rich. I don't know if you noticed the title of Brigham Young's remarks in my last post. "The Order of Enoch—Study of Law—How to Become Rich."

I was told earlier that I misquoted Brigham Young. That person can go to the reference that I quoted from. Here is a new quote from him, and a reference. Someone else was asking how sgr's book deals with the law of consecration and a zion society. The Order of Enoch—Study of Law—How to Become Rich. Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered at the General Conference, in the New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Monday Morning, April 7, 1873 "Here is Horace S. Eldredge, he is one of our wealthy men. What did he have when he came here? Nothing that I know of, except just enough to get here with his family. William Jennings has been called a millionaire. What was he worth when be came here? He had comparatively little. Now he is one of our wealthy men. William H. Hooper is another of our wealthy men. He is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. How much had he to pay as surplus when he came here. He could pay no surplus, for he was worth nothing; but he is now wealthy. If he had gone to California I believe he would have been poor today. "There is any amount of property, and gold and silver in the earth and on the earth, and the Lord gives to this one and that one—the wicked as well as the righteous—to see what they will do with it, but it all belongs to him. He has handed over a goodly portion to this people, and, through our faith, patience and industry, we have made us good, comfortable homes here, and there are many who are tolerably well off, and if they were in many parts of the world they would be called wealthy. But it is not ours, and all we have to do is to try and find out what the Lord wants us to do with what we have in our possession, and then go and do it. If we step beyond this, or to the right or to the left, we step into an illegitimate train of business. Our legitimate business is to do what the Lord wants us to do with that which he bestows upon us, and dispose of it just as he dictates, whether it is to give all, one-tenth, or the surplus. I was present at the time the revelation came for the brethren to give their surplus property into the hands of the Bishops for the building up of Zion, but I never knew a man yet who had a dollar of surplus property. No matter how much one might have he wanted all he had for himself, for his children, his grandchildren, and so forth. "If we are disposed to enter into covenant one with another, and have an agreement made according to the laws of our land, and we are disposed to put our property into the hands of trustees, and work as we are directed—eat, drink, sleep, ride, walk, talk, study, school our children, our middle-aged and our aged, and learn the arts and sciences, the laws of the Priesthood, the laws of life, anatomy, physic and anything and everything useful upon the earth, the Lord has not the least objection in the world, and would be perfectly willing for us to do it, and I should like, right well, for us to try it. I know how to start such a society, right in this city, and how to make its members rich. I would go to now, and buy out the poorest ward in this city, and then commence with men and women who have not a dollar in the world. Bring them here from England, or any part of the earth, set them down in this ward and put them to work, and in five years we would begin to enter other wards, and we would buy this house and that house, and the next house, and we would add ward to ward until we owned the whole city, every dollar's worth of property there is in it. We could do this, and let the rich go to California to get gold, and we would buy their property. Would you like to know how to do this? I can tell you in a very few words—never want a thing you cannot get, live within your means, manufacture that which you wear, and raise that which you eat. Raise every calf and lamb; raise the chickens, and have your eggs, make your butter and cheese, and always have a little to spare. The first year we raise a crop, and we have more than we want. We buy nothing, we sell a little. The next year we raise more; we buy nothing, and we sell more. In this way we could pile up the gold and silver and in twenty years a hundred families working like this could buy out their neighbors. I see men who earn four, five, ten or fifteen dollars a day and spend every dime of it. Such men spend their means foolishly, they waste it instead of taking care of it." He goes on to say that we should study out the laws of the land. I would suggest that he makes that suggestion because it is as we obey eternal laws we become rich. Before you say I have a misquote go read the reference.

I propose that we ignore snow's nonsensical comments if you have not already done so. What a headache.

I always just throw away my notes, but sometimes I want to know where I can find a good quote to go with a certain scripture. Here is a great site that I use. Scriptural Index to the Latter-day Prophets I try to only write questions in my scriptures. The Spirit will give me different answers each time I study a particular scripture. Hope this helps.