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aj4u

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  1. Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by aj4u

    LDS believe there are core doctrines that never change and do not contradict. We also believe there are various teachings, some of which are correct, and others that may not be. "We believe the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly." This means translated by those who have made the translations over the centuries, but also on how it is interpreted by leaders and by us today.

    We do not have creeds, like many other religions. We have had leaders who have spoken very authoritatively in the past regarding their views and teachings. However, those were not necessarily based upon full core doctrine. Each of us is to strive for the Holy Ghost, in order to understand these things as correctly as possible. Yet, we also need to be humble enough to realize that the Holy Spirit can only teach us as much as we are ready to receive. If we do not study and ponder, we are limited on what we may learn from the Spirit. If we are closed-minded on certain issues, the Spirit cannot and will not enlighten us. And sometimes the Lord determines we just aren't ready for some answers..

    We can always search out the correct translation. No one says we have to follow the translations of the KJV, NIV or the many others.

    Our leaders today encourage us to focus on the core doctrines and principles. It is in those things that we can find our testimonies, our faith, and our salvation...

    What are those core beliefs and how well do they line up the the proper translation of the Bible?

    As for the scriptures, when it comes to the core doctrines, there are few contradictions that I can find. Most of those I tend to put to bad translation over the centuries.

    Core doctrine is usually easier to determine, because when the scriptures are all taken into context, one can find the major themes, and how they work together. In this, the Book of Mormon tends to be more consistent than the Bible. But then, the Bible has gone through a lot of revisions and political intrigue over the millenia.

    What Scriptures are you referring to, and what few contradictions do you find in core doctrine? Are they in the BOM or the Bible or both?

  2. Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by aj4u

    Uh, it's not clear how discussion of continuing revelation fits into "evolution of prophecy"?

    :offtopic:You are speaking of the evolution of prophecy, but look at the title of the thread. Maybe we could bring this on track by asking how do you know that prophets are from God? Not all that claim to be spokesman for God are from God. One way I judge prophets is by what they say and how it lines up with Scriptures and whether or not their prophecies come to pass. If they contradict the word in the Holy Bible and their prophecy fails, that is a red flag. :ohnoyoudont:If someone fails to see the flag, they are in deep trouble and deception.

  3. Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    There could be many variables to that statement. Who was Jesus talking to? What point was He trying to make? What were the circumstances around Him at the time of His statement? etc. There are MANY things that all need to be looked at before making any judgement on a statement that may appear to be contradictory. Things may be said in one time period that may apply, but may be changed because of it not working for another. That doesn't necessarily mean that one is right and the other is wrong. They're just different.

    Yes, I agree. I think Jesus was speaking as the son of man in one instance and as the Son of God (or God) in the other. This would make both statements true.

  4. Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    As an average member who is not a scholar, it means to me that the Lord grants us more light and knowledge "line upon line, precept upon precept" as we're ready for it. This can mean that He changes His instructions to us to fit our changing circumstances and readiness to move forward.

    To me, that's the greatest blessing of having prophets on the earth: when the Lord decides we're ready to take the next step (such as by lifting the priesthood restriction), He has His spokesman in place to tell, "Ok, it's time for _____" and have that spokesman pass the Lord's will on to those who choose to follow God.

    I am not sure how this fits the topic of this thread.

  5. Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    Perhaps you should read some of the relevant writings and find some apparent contradictions to discuss. Without being too familiar with them myself, perhaps we could ask for enlightenment on contemporary views and feelings on the evolution that has taken place within the LDS church with respect to the big issues of polygamy and people of african descent in the priesthood. Those are common knowledge, I suppose, but maybe there are others. So, question: what does the evolution of prophecy mean to everyone?

    I have heard some views on this subject, but it might be fun to discuss it firsthand.

    Hope that is a useful direction of discussion.

    To be honest with you, I don't know where the congregation of churches rejected plurality in marriage. It is also rejected from society as a whole especially in this country. Isn’t that a contradiction from the way things were done in the OT? In fact, there really isn’t anything stated against plurality in the Bible as a whole that I can find. I know it states that if one wants to be a bishop he should be the husband of one wife. Does any have a take on this? I know this used to be a practice in the Mormon Church, but they were denied status of a state if they didn’t stop the practice. I don’t see from a Biblical basis why all the opposition. These are areas I don’t understand and welcome input. From both a sides of the spectrum.

  11. Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    I was asked how I deal with the contradictions in the Bible? Some times there are things that appear to be contradiction but are not. I guess I would handle it the same way as Mormons deal with contradictions in Mormon writings. So maybe we have some common basis on how to do that. But to make sure, I would like to know how Mormons deal with the contradiction in Mormons writings. :)

  12. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    Wow for once we agree. How about now going with what you just said and say we agree to disagree. Why keep debating with us on what we believe? I've tried to say that and you continue to want to debate it. Isn't it time for this to just be done?

    I agree. I am done. Please tell the others to stop responding. I ahavre said all I know about this topic. Lets look at some thing else.:o

  13. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    Any number of groups look at the bible and come up with very different beliefs systems. JW's, Christadelphians, World Wide Church of God, Christian Science, The Family (Berg's group), Quakers, Shakers etc etc etc Each of these groups would claim that they have the true understanding of scripture or God's message, just as both LDS and Traditonal Christians do.

    LDS beliefs do not contradict the Bible when understood solely in terms of their own framework and interpretation.

    The Traditional Christian belief framework, those common set of interpretations and concepts held largely in common by a broad range of churches have several things going for them. Firstly longevity, most of the concepts go back some way in Christian history. Secondly the number of people who even though they disagreed on many issues still manage to share the core aspects. Thirdly, there have been several groups which stood apart from traditional christianity who have largely returned to more traditonal Christianity. Large parts of the SDA movement are more thoroughly traditional then they once were. A sizable porton of the World Wide Chruch of God have moved to adopt more tradtional thinking. And I'm happy to be corrected by any RLDS (Community of Christ) folk but in a number of areas they too appear to have leaned back to more traditional thinking.

    Do you think this doesn't happen in Mormonism?

  15. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    I'm curious, aj, do you believe that God wants us to understand Him? Do you think that He wants us to know Him? If so, then how do we do it? The Bible has many contradictions...some have been shown in this thread. How are we to understand the contradictions? How are we to do which is correct, which may be slightly misunderstood, and which are just wrong? Or can anything written in the Bible be wrong?

    How do you deal with the contradiction in the Mormon writings?

  18. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    Just because we interpret the Bible differently from others does not mean our beliefs are not based in the Bible. We have shown you the Bible references we use to show that God has a body. You choose to interpret those verses differently. That does not mean you are biblical and we are not. Maybe it means your interpretations, the interpretations without the aid of living prophets BTW, are wrong, and ours are right.

    If you choose to see it that way. We are all free to choose what we believe, but we are not free from the consequences of those choices.

  20. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    So you are saying that God and Jesus are one and the same?

    It seems that Snow is saying that God is flesh and blood because Jesus is God. But if I say it, I may be told I am being slippery. Yes and no to your question Pam. Jesus is God, and He is the Son of God. I don't know how God does that, but I am not going to speculate beyond the Bible of how that is or is not done. No one should do that. Where is it written that we should comprehend God's essence?

  24. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted · Edited by aj4u

    Have you even read the Bible?

    Newsflash: God, Christ, has a body. Are you going to tell us that 1. Christ is not God or that 2. No one has seen Christ?

    Obviously many, many, many people have seen God.

    Even if you believe that God is someone other than Christ, many people have also seen God, as reported in the Bible at least:

    Moses spoke with God face to face, not face to burning bush.

    Jacob wrestled with God. Obviously he saw him. Are you going to tell us that God stopped being God while wrestling?

    There are tons of examples, known to those that read the bible, of men seeing God.

    How about Job: Job 42: 5. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

    Actually you have brought up some good points. These verses have puzzled me; however, it doesn't make for a good argument that God is flesh and bone. Many people say they can see even though they don't physically see. For example, the lyrics to Amazing Grace "I was blind now I see" There are many ways of seeing and perceiving that can be interpreted as seeing. If I saw some of God's glory, i would say I have seen God. Or any spiritual vision. We have to take all the Scripture and look and understand what is Spiritually discerned, Look at these verses for instance: Gen. 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.33:10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.

    Jn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

    Jn. 43-1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    1Tim. 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Jn. 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

    Are we now going to say that the apostels didn't read the Bible? But you have brought up some good points Snow. I am willing to drop this if you are. It seems we are getting no where. I don't really understand why Jacob said, "I have seen God face to face" except that he many have wrestled with a spiritual being. How does he know it was God if he had never seen Him before? In other words, your argument for God being flesh and bones from a Biblical perspective is very weak. Especially when the apostles say no man hath seen God at any time. Have you seen Him?

  25. Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

    in LDS Gospel Discussion

    Posted

    I'd only add that AJ's interpretation (God is Spirit, not flesh) etc. is one for which there is tremendous unity in the Christian world. But, you are right, it's because we do not use the lhe LDS revelations. IMHO, what's being attempted here is for AJ to suggest that LDS teachings have little basis in the Bible alone, and others here to find hints of LDS teaching in it. We might nudge one another, but this is not a "clincher" issue for either side.

    Does that mean you believe that the Book of Mormon and LDS doctrine clashes with the Bible? That is what we are trying to establish with this thread.